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Is This A Civil War Token? Pics Fixed

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 Posted 03/07/2016  07:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list
This was a pre-war token. In this grade of G-VG is in the $12-$15 range, retail. Relatively common but still an early piece.
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 Posted 03/07/2016  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
Over many decades of collecting tokens now, I've not before encountered this one, so I'm inclined to suspect it is not so common as the books may say. Then too, southern tokens do tend to be more in demand than their counterparts on the other side of the Mason-Dixon Line.

While this one is not listed as a CWT, there are some 1859-60 dated tokens that are listed as CWT's. I've long felt that the CWT series should be more inclusive. There are a great many interesting tokens, having some connection to the Civil War, that don't fit comfortably into the CWT series. Yet, such pieces are telling of the times.
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 Posted 03/07/2016  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list
Link to a page about "The Tokens of Charles J Raine of Lynchburg, VA".


http://www.novanumismatics.com/va-m...rg-virginia/


It turns out he SERVED in the Civil War.
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 Posted 03/07/2016  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
I maybe did not word my previous post very well.

I was wondering if CWT's had to be made during e civil war to be
considered CWT's.

After reading the link posted by nss-52, I feel I would keep this token
with my other CWT's.

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 Posted 03/07/2016  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list
Nss-52...Thanks for sharing the link to this article. It was very interesting. Kind of makes it special knowing that he served and died while fighting in the war.

A few people have said "relatively common" and I'm not sure if I am on that same page. I did a quick ebay search and I could not find any like this for sale. I must admit that I am not the best at searching for things like this but I could not find any.
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 Posted 03/07/2016  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list

Quote:

A few people have said "relatively common"


Guilty!

As Exo pointed out...


Quote:
not so common as the books may say


My answer came from literature.... He is the seasoned collector of Early Tokens!


Like I said Nice Token!
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 Posted 03/07/2016  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list
Amida17...Does your source have a mintage # for these or just have a scale of common to uncommon? Like I said....I have a few civil war tokens but overall this is an area that I am not that familiar with.

I know this is a little off topic but do they even have exact mintage #'s on CWT's?
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 Posted 03/07/2016  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
NSS-52 ... Thanks for posting the link on Aaron Packard's article. I likely once read that at some time or another, as I've visited his fine website many times. He's a great researcher!


Quote:
I was wondering if CWT's had to be made during the civil war to be
considered CWT's.


There are some CWT's, dated 1860, that have been grandfathered into the CWT series. Here's one ...

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed

I'm a great admirer of Russ Rulau's works on tokens. He researched and wrote ever so much, and I often simply thumb through his books, refreshing my memory. That said, there were errors and holes in what he wrote, as Mr. Rulau was dependent upon ever so many contributors. I felt honored to simply be listed as such.


Quote:
I know this is a little off topic but do they even have exact mintage #'s on CWT's?


Surprisingly, there are known mintage figures for a minute percentage of tokens from that era, such as some struck by Bolen and Merriam. The rarity of virtually all CWT's is based upon estimates. The Fuld's did a great job with their rarity estimations, but there were some glaring errors; this, as can well be expected what with the listings of thousands of tokens! Then too, the discovery of small hoards of tokens have occasionally caused a rare token to become less rare.


Quote:
He (Exo) is the seasoned collector of Early Tokens!


Thanks, Amida. Seasoned, approaching pickled, I am!
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 Posted 03/07/2016  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list
I want one of those....

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
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 Posted 03/07/2016  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
Note the die break that virtually divides this "Wealth of the South" token. I find it ironic, foreboding, that our country was to be divided the following year.
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 Posted 03/07/2016  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list
I searched that one up, and it is odd that many, many examples have die breaks.
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 Posted 03/13/2016  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list

Quote:
So .. just guessing not a CWT .....
Civil War 1861 - 1865


"By definition" Civil War tokens are limited to pieces dating from 1861 to 1864. The 1861 date marks when the war began. The 1864 date marks when the Union Government made it illegal to use them in commerce.

BUT there was a big exception as someone alluded to the Wealth of the South token. There was actually a series of these tokens, and the Wealth of the South varieties are the best known. The others are a set of presidential campaign tokens that were issued for the four 1860 presidential candidates - Lincoln, Stephen Douglas, John Bell and John Breckenridge.

To confuse things the dies were sold or transferred to another token maker and restrikes were made after the collector. Most collectors don't seem to overly concerned by that.

Here is an example of an 1860 Lincoln Wealth of the South token. This one is pretty rare because of the reverse. I am quite certain that this piece was issued and used during the 1860 presidential campaign because of the hole and the slogan on the reverse.

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed

Most of these tokens come with this reverse, "The President's House."

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
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 Posted 03/13/2016  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
Those are super tokens, medalets, BillJones! The Lincoln pieces are among my favorites. The first CWT I purchased in 1964 was a Lincoln political, dated 1864 (Fuld's 127/248). I recall thinking that Lincoln had gotten to see his image on a cent-sized token, a hundred years prior.

IMHO, your Lincoln piece wouldn't be classified as a "Wealth of the South" token. Granted, it was a product of the same engraver and made the same year, but it has no connection to the South, the southern cause. There is, I recall, a rare muling (a pair of dies that seemingly don't belong together) of that Lincoln obverse with a "Wealth of the South" reverse. That piece is a horse of a different color ... pairing northern an southern sentiments.

Here's a CWT trivia question ... What storecards, long listed by the Fulds, bear the dates 1859 and 1860?
Edited by ExoGuy
03/13/2016 4:12 pm
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 Posted 03/13/2016  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list

Quote:
IMHO, your Lincoln piece wouldn't be classified as a "Wealth of the South" token. Granted, it was a product of the same engraver and made the same year, but it has no connection to the South, the southern cause. There is, I recall, a rare muling (a pair of dies that seemingly don't belong together) of that Lincoln obverse with a "Wealth of the South" reverse. That piece is a horse of a different color ... pairing northern an southern sentiments.


The Civil War tokens guys call ALL of the 1860 tokens whose dies were cut by Benjamin True and later restruck and muled by John Stanton, "Wealth of the South." I don't know why, and I agree with you that it is inaccurate, but they do.

As for the Lincoln / "No Submission to North" token, I won't give you five cents for it as a political / historical item; it's just plain stupid. I would sell it for a profit however, just to show that I am "a greedy capitalist."

There are many cent sized Lincoln CWT varieties. I have a complete obverse set of them, but I don't collect all of the reverse variations which are many, and I don't collect the off-metal pieces.

Here is one dated 1860 you might not have seen. It is rare. The claim is that the mintage was 10 pieces, but I would not hang my hat on that.

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
Edited by billjones
03/13/2016 4:36 pm
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 Posted 03/13/2016  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list
I have seen the "needle" storecard, paired with Lincoln, before. I don't recall that one being as high grade a piece as you have there, BillJones.

I do like the beardless Lincoln pieces. It's a cool story, how a little girl told Abe that he'd look better if he had a beard. The girl, Gracie Bedell, approached Abe at a campaign whistle stop, 1860, in Westfield, NY.

Here's a beardless Lincoln campaign token from 1860 that I picked up at a recent show. It's now in my Civil War token collection, regardless of the date ...

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed

Is-This-A-Civil-War-Token?-Pics-Fixed
Edited by ExoGuy
03/13/2016 6:39 pm
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