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 Replies: 51 / Views: 8,393 |
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
Actually it was a 1906 Prussian 20 mark the 1969 25 cents was struck over. Look at the Heritage auction link I posted. You can see the younger effigy of Queen Elizabeth II and the hooves of the horse on the reverse - that is an English sovereign under that 1969 25c strike. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:Now if the RCM choose to enforce the order when one of these coins shows up for sale is a risk you take on owning this unit. A Court Order specifies the name of the person the goods are to be seized from. You're describing a scenario whereby two employees were charged and convicted and the actual evidence of their one misdeed was confiscated. One coin, one incident, one fraud count. But it can't be assumed that two guys fraudulently minted all or any of the others. Maybe they just wanted to make one that looked like those that their bosses were given as retirement gifts? RCM had every opportunity to pursue legal recourse by subpoenaing PCGS through the US courts in order to determine the name of the owner/s and yet they chose to look the other way. There's got to be a good reason for that. Considering the amount of time that's passed their failure to do so has already legitimizes these coins (in my opinion). It would be interesting to hear what the dealers presently selling any have to say but I suspect the answer is in the PCGS holder. Wasn't it PCGS who was contracted by RCM to grade the 1912-1914 gold coins as well? If so, that's an indication of a pretty solid business relationship between the two. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
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I got a laugh out of the ha.com link of the 1969 25 cent posted by SPP. The description calls it "mint sport".
This whole discussion reminds me of the saga of the US 1933 double eagle. Similar, but different.
Well since you mention it.....I recall it mentioned that RCM had production issues after silver coinage was discontinued in 1967. For example it's known a portion of 1968 dime were minted at the Philadelphia mint because the reeding on the edge is different. The general timing may mean nothing but it just happens to be in somewhat the same era. What's not known is how often this type of outsourcing occurred or what other mints might have engaged in "mint sport" knowing the risk was less if their home currency wasn't involved. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
I referred to the auction reference I had. It clearly states A Prussian 1906 20 mark, sale price £700 . As SPP shows ,obviously there are a few Sovereigns as well. The point is , there is clear evidence of skulduggery at the mint in the past. Especially the post silver coin era from 1969 - 1971.
Reference Coinhistory.info Chronology of Canadian Coins July 11 1984
[ 708.7 ] . It will save precious time rather than going through old English Coin Catalogues .
Edited by Pacificoin
05/02/2016 4:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2428 Posts |
As stated earlier, the Mint has no desire to chase down any of these coins from the past. Court orders or not. Only would a recent or current scandal cause the Mint to step up to the plate. The RCM is about making money and not wasting it on the retrieval of a coin or two. Just too much time and resources wasted for the return. Someone mentioned earlier about the Mint chasing down those who make and sell fraudulent/counterfeit coins... I hope this story puts things in perspective. The gentlemen who invented the illusion of sawing a lady in half had a million dollar idea so many years ago. People were paying plenty of money to watch as he performed his illusion night after night. He was on his way to easy street. Eventually he decided to patent his illusion. Once he obtained his Patent, he spent the rest of his life in courts trying to sue thousands of individuals for Patent infringements rather then do what he did best, saw women in half. Instead of enjoying profits from his illusion act he wound up penny less and miserable and over a million dollars in debt. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
One of the most respected dealers Mr. Moore offered a ms 64 version of this coin to me at 2013 Torex under the table he cautioned and warned me about legality of this unit. When a judge gives a judgement at the end of a trial, they give their reasons and in this case the RCM asked for a court order to make these coins the property of the RCM for obvious reasons, if you want to take a chance on a 15000 to 20000 coin be my guest, some people are willing to take the risk, if you dangle this coin at a show with an RCM rep or even a failed marriage. Court orders are what the RCMP will readily act upon, that's the difference when the RCMP seized the 67 dollars, ect. from JM and eventually succeeding trial and having the coins returned and becoming a reconized error because the RCM failed to prove their point. By the way, the two convicted RCM employees admitted to producing the 6 to 8 units and smuggling them out. Edited by john100
05/03/2016 10:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2428 Posts |
Try to ask the seller a question about the coin.
I asked a question and rather then an answer, I received questions on my question.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The dealer is smart, being on consignment, with it's history still a cool coin to have in hand.
Edited by john100
08/20/2016 1:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quite the tempting lure for a collector born or having a significant event in 1970, who has a connection to Manitoba. Given that gold was cheap throughout the '70s, it's regretful that RCM didn't mint both silver and gold collector dollars each year for the general public to buy, during that era.  |
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Valued Member
Canada
458 Posts |
are ther any made out of any other metal than gold or silver
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21655 Posts |
Yes-
The Business Strikes & SP strikes where made out of Nickel.
There where no production strikes made out of Silver.
Edited by JimmyD
08/31/2016 12:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
They should not even be produced on gold or silver, that's why the rogue mint employees were jailed for it's production. This coin was only to produced as a nickel dollar
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
They should not even be produced on gold or silver, that's why the rogue mint employees were jailed for it's production.
In 1970 the price of gold was only about $39 an ounce. What year were "rogue mint employees" jailed for its production and are you sure this isn't an urban myth? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
If Mr. Moore told me the history on this coin, and he was there in the US auction where the coin was seized, he offered a unit at 2012 or 13 Torex under the table with full disclosure, if you want there are a few copies probably sell for around 17 to 20 grand.
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Posted 05/02/2016 2:48 pm
