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1951-D LWC DDO - I Hope I Finally Got One

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 Posted 08/10/2016  02:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
So disappointed I thought for sure that I had it recognized this time. I see exactly what you are talking about coop - I need to make sure I use those lines that you do.

It is different from my others, but just because of circulation then. But, even with my scope I can see the notching on the hook of the G and the bottom left of the D and E.


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 Posted 08/10/2016  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list
CoinCents, I too think I'm seeing similarities in the notching. I think circulation wear maybe robbing you in this case. Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 08/10/2016  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
Such a bummer, Thanks for your help Doug with trying to attribute this for me.
Edited by CoinCents
08/10/2016 11:37 am
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 08/11/2016  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
If you are referring to the 'U' on TRUST, take a look again. It does have marks that look like notching on that device, but not the location differences between the two sets of images. The notching is not a match. On hub doubling they should match up identical in order to be from that die. (only exception would be on the class 2 doubled dies. As the dies wear the hub doubling may not be seen on the class 2 doubled dies. Interior doubling will be present, but the outer edge of the devices hub doubling will disappear in the MDS and later die states on these coins)
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 Posted 08/11/2016  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list
Can't believe I search for an hour or more in Photoshop Elements 9, tool bars and then help section looking for a pen tool option to draw vector lines. Found out it's not an option in PSE 9 and 10 via Adobe tech support section.

My secondary option is the selection tool. Not going for a full overlay, but rather selecting a slice which includes the mint mark and up the way I see it.

Before that I'll add the notching that intrigues me to keep digging or is CoinCents original images seem to be showing the following.

a. In "GOD" the G shows spread and notch. The O and D show spread.

b."WE" shows spread notches on two legs of the E, top leg to beat up.

c. "TRUST" here the spread differs. "U" in TRUST is notched, but I see the comparison pic is a good bit smaller than coppercoins example.

d. Weigh in the circulation factor and the unknown die state of CoinCents example, I wouldn't expect them to look exactly the same.

e. The MM placement. I'll try to add visual aid rather than words, but will say they seem to lay right over one another See below.

The following images are a progression overlay at 25%, 50% and 75% opacity using CoinCents example of MM area and up on top of Coop's example from Coppercoins. Hope it shows why I'm not ready to write it off yet. Note: I did not start at 0% and end at 100% because that's like showing the original pic again. Thanks, Doug.

1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One

1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One

1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One

PS: Coop I did take my overlay section straight from the original pic for CoinCents coin. Thought your example cut a bit off more so on the right. Please don't beat me up to bad. Just think I see something worth mentioning. Thanks, Doug.
Edited by Halo1st
08/11/2016 11:41 pm
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 Posted 08/12/2016  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
OK, lets make all the devices in the thread all the same width as the outside dimensions with also a normal coin added into the side by side. Lets see where this takes us:
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
Note the differences between the three of them?
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 Posted 08/12/2016  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
Doug - coop thank you both for all the hard work you are putting into this. Your skills are beyond mine for using these photo programs - I am not sure how I can contribute here. I tried to get some better images this morning, but they are not any better than what is already here.
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 Posted 08/12/2016  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list
I do see the differences, as well as the similarities.

When I was a kid I saw a smart owl on (black and white) TV say it takes three licks to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop. I found it took me considerably longer.

I also learned if you're not willing to take a lick'n, then the world may never know. Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 08/12/2016  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list
I remember that owl....
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 Posted 08/12/2016  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
Okay, I have been trying to work with these pictures all afternoon.

I have marked what I see as the similarities on the G & O.

1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
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 Posted 08/13/2016  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
But on doubled dies, even the slightest differences disqualify a certain die number.
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
These are examples from two different dies. To the eyes they may be hard to discern, but after studying them for a time, then you start to see the differences.
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
You have to see even the slightest differences to spot it. (my cheat sheet on the side helps though)
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
The die 002 is stronger than the 007. This shows on these devices on LIBERTY.
1951-D-LWC-DDO---I-Hope-I-Finally-Got-One
See the differences here? I always look at the tail of the 'S' on TRUST for ID on these two dies. There is a nice hook upwards that catches my eye. Making these helped me to realized the biggest differences in these dies. The date:
]img]https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...DATE_001.jpg
Only making these side by sides I noticed the differences on the tail of the 2. So the 008 has a stronger spread than 003. So training the eyes you will soon pick out the differences/things that area alike on doubled dies. (same on RPMs as well) The 008 with the different tail on the 2 is clue that they are different. But looking at other parts of the coins design, will also show differences.

Thus because one area looks like a certain die and the parts don't, doesn't make that die. It disqualifies it from being that die number.
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 Posted 08/13/2016  01:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
Thank you coop - unfortunately most of what I search are well circulated. I guess this is my biggest problem with trying to see the DD's and then to figure out which ones they are.

Again thank you for all your hard work & time on my post.

My reference file sure is getting hefty - I appreciate it.
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 Posted 08/13/2016  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
Doug, I absolutely agree with what you said, I just don't have the knowledge to back it up. I appreciate all your time and hard work as well.

You all are so great - Thanks :)
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 Posted 08/13/2016  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list
CoinCents, I found experience is a major factor in this hobby. I admire and appreciate all who take the time out of their day to help us one on one with less experience. They've been down these roads more times and know more short cuts.

Coop makes a good point about die similarities and differences. In this case we have just the one die to compare to. I did search for other die states and or close up images to compare to and found Coop's images to be the best for showing (close up) this DDO's pick up points.

Have seen in the past where listed or documented die attributions have been changed in both directions later on.

So for now lets go find a better example as I think you shown you have a good eye for spotting the details. Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 08/13/2016  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list
I for one am extremely grateful that you guys take extra time to help us.
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