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 Replies: 167 / Views: 24,206 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
This coin is in our opinion genuine and the "Mint Error" is the fact that it is Selectively Gold Plated Did CCCS actually test the coin using an XRF machine or did they simply assume it is Gold plated ? |
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Moderator
 Canada
10456 Posts |
I assume that the coin was neither tested by XRF nor SEM....
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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New Member
 Canada
24 Posts |
If Louis said it was selectively gold plated I would assume he got it tested.? How would you like message me spp-ottawa ?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
You didn't ask if it was tested?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
At this point, since there appears to be a second coin that looks similar, I'm guessing it's unnatural, yet in this case, natural toning. Perhaps there is something in the colouring that reacts with uv light, releasing fumes causing the silver to tarnish prematurely?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
955 Posts |
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Moderator
Canada
10456 Posts |
Hello all, this is an update on the coin in question. The owner of the coin sent this to me, and allowed me to crack the CCCS hard slab to XRF test the coin. I tested this coin with a normal, painted silver dollar from the same series. I also tested a coin that was selectively gold plated, a $10 beaver, to ensure that my XRF could detect a thin gold plating over silver.   The coin discussed in this thread has the exact same composition as the normal silver coin. There was no gold detected on the surface of the yellow coin, and given that there was a similar one found toned in a coin store window, the surface has that nice golden colour from only surface toning: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...8024#2400592Selective gold plating from the Royal Canadian Mint is thick enough to attenuate the XRF beam enough to detect gold on the surface of the coin. Analysis of the beaver coin showed there was detectable gold on the surface of that coin. Therefore, this is not a mint error, but instead, is a beautifully golden toned silver dollar. Once again, science saves the day... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Moderator
Canada
10456 Posts |
As a side note, I was floored at how much titanium was in the paint, on the painted surface. A good portion of the XRF beam was attenuated in the paint, which was unexpected. I wonder if the paint itself was responsible for the nice, even yellow toning.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12261 Posts |
Great work SPP-Ottawa! Always nice to have access to technology!
Your results do call into question the skills and reliability of the CCCS grading service. If I recall correctly, the service was quite adamant here on CCF that the coin was gold plated and not simply a toned silver coin.
@jake222: I applaud you for going the "extra mile" on this one and having the coin tested by a reliable second party. You did a solid for the hobby!
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Moderator
Canada
10456 Posts |
Quote:
Your results do call into question the skills and reliability of the CCCS grading service. commems Let's not get into that debate. To err is human, and I have examples of "mistakes" in almost every third party grading holder there is... I will be watching this thread closely. Personal attacks will not be tolerated against other members (and yes, CCCS is a member here). The point to was educate and learn, and move forward with this. I am very tempted to take my silver (untoned) coin pictured above, and put it in a sunny window for a few months to try and reproduce the toning... but I can't - the darn cat will knock it off the window sill daily.... that is her window sill!!  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
United States
12261 Posts |
@SPP-Ottawa: I certainly understand that we all make mistakes, and completely agree that no third party grading service is perfect. I've been around the hobby far too long to think otherwise. I believe my history here on CCF also supports that I am not one to make personal attacks. I've been the subject of a couple here in the Canadian NCLT section, but I do not support or propagate such things. My comment was in reference to Louis Chevrier's previous strong comment here on CCF: Quote:
This coin is in our opinion genuine and the "Mint Error" is the fact that it is Selectively Gold Plated but on the coin from the $99 set. Since space is limited we decided to just add "Mint Error"
Now I will not enter in a long debate about this post. CCCS is the only company doing errors and most varieties and we will never please everyone. If you want to help CCCS send us material to be certified.
Louis Chevrier
CCCS Mr. Chevrier believes in his company, as he should, but if you are going to make comments such as the above, I simply believe it is important for you to have conducted the type of testing/measuring that supports such a statement. Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
I agree 100% with you spp-Ottawa I did not get this coin tested to cut down Louis comments and his evaluation of this coin .I took a second opinion to really find out if it was gold plated and it ends up not gold plated but toned and thats that...Thank you for all your comments...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I am amazed at how sunlight or store lights can create such a great toning in kind of short timing, glad to hear the findings.
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Valued Member
Canada
74 Posts |
A nice result to end this story.
Good job basement expert!
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Valued Member
Canada
194 Posts |
@jake222
You have a coin with an interesting story to tell your Grandkids. (a coin community Legend)
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Replies: 167 / Views: 24,206 |
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Posted 03/08/2017 1:25 pm
