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 Replies: 27 / Views: 2,295 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18717 Posts |
i dont think the coin would make MS64.too many marks on the chin and neck as well as rim issues. when toning is present it needs to have eye appeal and some type of symmetry. in this case symmetry is not present. due to these issues I'm going with MS62
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11914 Posts |
Although I have tremendous respect for moxking and your experience, I am going to go out on a limb and disagree. The criteria for circulated coins according to PCGS, a market grading trend setter is as follows: Quote:For Circulated coins, there are: 1. The amount of wear. This is by far the most important factor in the grading of circulated coins. 2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade.3. Luster. AU (Almost Uncirculated) coins should have some original luster. For lower grades color and originality have the same effect on grading as luster does for higher grades. The "technical" grade of the coin is the grade of the coin based on the factors above without taking eye appeal into consideration. http://www.PCGS.com/eyeappeal/ According to this interpretation of grading, wear is not the only factor in technical grade. I do not believe that two coins, both with slight wear at high points, one marked up with contact with other coins and another that is completely clean, both merit AU58 equally. Sure it is not wear, but marks affect the technical grade according to PCGS. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/15/2016 8:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade. There are no severe or unusually serious marks for the AU-58 to MS-64 grade levels present on any of three Morgans. Edited by TypeCoin971793
12/15/2016 9:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
when toning is present it needs to have eye appeal and some type of symmetry. I do not believe there is any requirement for toning to be symmetric. I have seen many crescent-toned and scatterbrained-toned Morgans in holders representing the correct technical grade. And, technically, there is a line of symmetry on the obverse is from 10:00 to 4:00. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11914 Posts |
Quote:Quote:
2. Marks and abrasions. Depending on the grade, a certain amount of marks and abrasions are expected with circulated coins. Severe or unusually serious marks "for the grade" can be a negative. The higher the circulated grade, the less severe marks can be before they would effect grade.
There are no severe or unusually serious marks for the AU-58 to MS-64 grade levels present on any of three Morgans. The quoted guideline applies to circulated coins so only to AU58 in the range. AU58, being the highest circulated grade, the least severe marks would affect the technical grade. The eye appeal of your coins' attractive toning would offset and likely increase the final grade. I revise my earlier grade assessment to AU58 due to the tremendous eye appeal and resulting adjustment to the technical grade. Since we agreed earlier on there being a little wear on the eagle, probably not MS. Not a lot of distance between the original AU55 CAC assessment and AU58.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/15/2016 10:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
My suggestion to see what severity the marks can have for a certain grade is to look at as many certified coins as possible. A coin show is a good place for this. I don't normally suggest relying on a TPG, but for common-date coins they grade fairly consistently with the market standard. To know this market standard, you just need to look at as many coins as possible. There will be some mistakes here and there, but you will be able to quickly pick them out. Go with your gut feeling; if a coin seems to be a higher or lower grade than similarly-graded coins, then it probably is. Talk with the dealer about it, and you may have quite an educatiinal conversation. Also keep in mind that Each denomination will have different standard (what would be a small bagmark on a Morgan would be a massive gouge on a 3¢ silver). There is no set guideline for what is considered acceptable for a grade. That is more a "feeling" kind if thing. When you look at hundreds or thousands of coins, you will quickly get the "feel" for it. Edited by TypeCoin971793
12/15/2016 10:36 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11914 Posts |
I benefit greatly from these thoughtful discussions with experienced folks. You guys/gals have easily assessed 100x more coins than I have. If I make a mistake, I hope you will be forgiving because I will keep making them as I walk down the road you have laid out for us newbs. I also like that we aren't all carbon copies of each other, but a collective set of diverse interests, tastes and opinions. PCGS is just one approach to quantifying that elusive 'je ne sais quoi' of numismatic value.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4471 Posts |
AU58 ciruclation rub on cheek and hair above ear. Nice toning.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18717 Posts |
Quote:
I do not believe there is any requirement for toning to be symmetric. I have seen many crescent-toned and scatterbrained-toned Morgans in holders representing the correct technical grade.
And, technically, there is a line of symmetry on the obverse is from 10:00 to 4:00. i find PCGS descriptions quite vague and way to much room for interpretation so when grading high end Morgans I always refer to an article on coingrading.com to come up with a final designation. The article was written in 1990 by Jim Halperin of Heritage Coins. I have found this technique of grading a good guideline and has done me well over the years. it speaks of the 4 components of grading with pictures and descriptions and speaks of tonal symmetry. The big TPG's may not consider this aspect, however, for me eye appeal has huge impact on my decision to purchase or not. http://www.coingrading.com/intro1.html |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Some people love Picasso's work, and some people hate it. Eye appeal is just as subjective. This is not my favorite toning pattern either, but it sure os nicer than many out there.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11914 Posts |
congrats  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 2,295 |
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Posted 12/15/2016 8:22 pm
