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1960-D LMC SD Is This Wide Enough To Be A Feeder Finger Die Gouge?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2017  06:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list
These keep showing up! There are too many of them with such similarities for them to be the result of random events! There must be an explanation for what causes them!

Random events include dies accidentally being dropped on each other, an engraving tool accidentally slipping, a polishing disc accidentally touching the edge, and others I have not thought of or have not yet been suggested.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  05:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
Maybe they are left overs from a die abrasion that didn't quite get polished away.
Take a look at the coin on this thread: http://goccf.com/t/278355
Now imaging poling those lines out and missing a small area next to the rim. Wouldn't that look similar to what we are seeing on all of these other cents?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  05:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
On that thread, the poster shows a 1994 Lincoln Cent. I found a 1994 Lincoln Cent that has marks similar to what we have been seeing on other cents, here is a photo of the coin I found.


1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?

On my coin you can see the line by the second T in STATES and also to the right side of the T in CENT.

I attempted to do an overlay of my coin with the 1994 that shows die abrasion marks to see if the lines matched. They are remarkably close, but I don't think the photos of the other coin are shot straight on at a 90° angle with the coin, so making an overlay exact is difficult.

I do think we should try to see if we can match these lines up and if they will line up, that would solve the mystery.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 01/19/2017  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list
Thanks, Claude - this could have possibilities - at least for some of them. The exceptions might be those marks which are similar in appearance: a wider base near the rim and tapering to a very fine point (or double point). There could be 2 different etiologies here.
Rest in Peace
United States
233 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list

Quote:
... Now imaging poling those lines out and missing a small area next to the rim ...


I cannot imagine that polishing a coin would remove features as large as these without damaging the devices.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
In order to polish these away on the die would require the removal of all the field in that area. If they do this it would are to remove more field the devices would be altered.
1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
The devices would be tapered. It would probably take a lot of time to remove this much of the field. But the damage is to the die, that is why it is raised on the coins. Struck through wire would leave an incuse mark on the coin:
1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
When I bought this coin, it was told to me that the wire was on the coin. The finder touched the wire and it fell off. I didn't know whether to believe that or not. But after a few year later, his fingerprint showed up on the coin. Then I believed that story.
Pillar of the Community
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746 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monika to your friends list
CWB,,,,,here are 2 views of the reverse of the 1994 lincoln

1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?

1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
Pillar of the Community
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3463 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
Thank you for posting the extra photos.
There is too much reflection on the area of your coin that I need to see.
Here is the area we are concentrating on.


1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?

If you could get a a close up of that area without so much glare, it should be what we need.
Edited by cwb
01/19/2017 10:40 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
746 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add monika to your friends list
Got a little trouble to get the right lightning ....see if any of those 2 pics work

1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?

1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2017  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
The angle of the photographs of the coins is not the same on each one, which is making it difficult to get a 100% match.
The lines on each coin are parallel to each other which leads me to believe that what ever made the marks on the die was at the exact same angle with the die's surface.
I think they are from the same die at different states, one before the abrasion marks were removed.
Maybe someone else with some photo software can make a comparison and give us another opinion of whether or not they think they match.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2017  05:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
I see these are listed on e-bay now being described as broken die errors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-D-SM-D...AOSwnHZYb0MY
Pillar of the Community
United States
3331 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2017  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list

Quote:
I see these are listed on e-bay now being described as broken die errors.


Thanks for pointing this out! It does look like the same die, but perhaps not the same die pair. The heavy scratches around liberty seem to be absent on the ebay example.

(No progress, by the way, on my trying to look into this phenomenon further).
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2017  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Illustration of feeder finger die scrapes:
1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
(I made this one years ago)
Pillar of the Community
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3463 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2017  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list
If these are examples of Feeder Finger Damage, wouldn't the lines all go in the same direction?
Some coins show the lines at more of a horizontal direction while others are more vertical.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2017  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I've seen them in two different directions. On the older wheat cents they are vertical:
1960-D-LMC-SD-Is-This-Wide-Enough-To-Be-A-Feeder-Finger-Die-Gouge?
So far examples I've found are mostly on the Philly and SF cents. I haven't found Denver ones yet. (a work in progress)
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