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Feeder Finger Damage: What Does It Look Like?

 
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 Posted 01/05/2019  5:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Feeder Finger damage:
Well now that I'm offline for a few days, I can catch up on some new threads to edit. This one is about the Feeder Finger Damage what it looks like. We often see it on cents and under stand what it look like. But dimes nickels and quarters are a bit different.

But first a question: Why does the feeder fingers, all of a sudden start creating damage to the dies? The answer: Because they were in the way during a strike, and now has suffered some damaged themselves.






Because they used to perform normally, now because the have been altered, they start damaging the dies. Makes the lines we see on the dies, thus the coins also have an altered look to them as raised areas on the coins usually outside/between devices. Most of the time they are not noticed to non collectors, but we see them. Now we know how the damage happens, what does it look like on different denominations. (Sorry, I Don't have images of all of them)

Wheat cents:
These are usually see from the top downwards.






Memorial cents:
These can be in either direction NE/SW or NE/SE. Usually seen in the first direction.










Shield cents:
These are seen more in a NE/SW direction








Roosevelt Dimes:
They are more often in a horizontal location direction on these dimes. Still need images of the other ones so we will know what to look for on them.








Here is a Quote From Mike Diamonds website about die scrapes:

Quote:
Die Scrapes ; Definition: Die scrapes are a form of die damage that is caused by the Feeder Finger scraping across the anvil die. Die scrapes appear on a coin as closely spaced, parallel ridges. It is a form of die damage that's usually caused by the Feeder Finger scraping across the anvil die face. Die scrapes also sometimes appear on the hammer die. There are probably other causes of die scrapes, but in most cases they're difficult to distinguish from Feeder Finger Damage.


Jefferson Nickels:
Jefferson nickels are often in a NW/SE direction.







[b[Washington Quarters:[/b]
NW/SE directions.


When the dies are polished, they sometimes remove part of the lower part of devices (the wider part of the devices design, now they are thinner looking) and when more polishing happens, more of the mid devices are removed. This is often done to remove die clash marks, Feeder Finger Damage and sever die gouges. An area worked over polishing is often dull looking in color and flows behind devices.
[dime image of polishing]




So when looking through coins and you find an example like these, then you will know what happened to your coin.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 01/05/2019  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great educational post! Thanks for the information Mr Coop.

-CH27
"Time is the coin of life. Only you can determine how it will be spent" -Carl Sandburg

Collector of Varieties and Errors of all kinds

Edited by CoinHunter27
01/05/2019 5:10 pm
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 Posted 01/05/2019  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting and educational... thanks!
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 Posted 01/05/2019  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coop, fantastic information and great photos!

I have a question in light of your slides on accidental die abrasion. Your image of the triangular weakness in the NW quadrant of the LWC reverse started me thinking about one of the mysteries of the LWC series.

A large number of the 1946-S cents have weak or missing details in the NW quadrant of the reverse, sometimes accompanied by weak or missing details in the SE quadrant of the obverse. In particular, "E PLU" and the "O" of ONE frequently are very weak or missing, and the "6" or "46" of the date along with the mm can be very weak. This also occurs on the 1946 cents and, to a lesser degree, on the 1946-D cents, but the frequency is much higher on the 1946-S cents.

I've long wondered about this frequency and why it appears on so many die pairs for this date and mint. It doesn't seem to be all-or-nothing on any of the die pairings, so it had to occur after the working dies were made. It doesn't seem to be related to striking pressure or planchet composition, since both apparently were consistent at all three mints in 1946. It does seem to be related to die state. I have yet to find this weakness in EDS strikes. Based on the known die shipments and mintage figures, San Francisco worked its dies to death that year, more than the other mints.

Here's the question. Do you think the 1946-S anomaly could be related to accidental die abrasion, maybe from feeder fingers, given the heavy mintages and high daily production numbers and overworked dies in 1946?

Thank you again for your scholarship and insight. I learn a lot from you and I appreciate your work.
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 Posted 01/05/2019  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all the weakness on the date of the last two digits were from a weak hub on the master die. About all of them have this issue with the digits being week. It has nothing to do with the strike as the mint marks appears strong. On the Lincoln cents there is a lot of metal/zinc movement on them The NW area suffers because the metal movement. even the Memorial cents have a weakness opposite the bottom of the bust area. That is more of the issue on them. On the Wheat cent there the feeder fingers damage are on the tops of the reverses. So it wouldn't affect the NW area. But the clashes are heavy on the NW and NE areas because of the outline of the bust on those sides. So I don't feel either of the issues I mentioned is a over die polishing issue. If it were an over die polishing issue the devices would be smaller and only the tops of the devices would be there. (Like the 1968 Memorial cent I posted. But more of a striking issue with the design. We see it less on the single squeeze dies as the profile of the bust/building is a lot lower.So it is more of an issue with the higher profile. Ever notice the proof cents don't have that issue? That is because they are struck twice. The higher the profile, the more pressure to make the profile higher.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 01/05/2019  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coop, Thank you!
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 Posted 01/07/2019  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mlov to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely amazing post!

Just wondering what kind of coining press has such feeder fingers?
The pics at the top of the post look like they are parts of an older press.
Taylor and Challen? HME? Ulhorn?
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 Posted 01/07/2019  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well most have to have some way to remove the struck coins. Several coins per second on some machines.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 01/08/2019  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, concerning the 2018P dime by Petespockets55. The die damage seems to run horizontally. Would that suggest the die was rotated at the time the die damage occurred? I missed that topic so looked it up and I'm curious if that coin strike was rotated as well.

Not sure if the same horizontal Schuler press(s) are still used in 2018, but do not recall seeing the Feeder Finger Damage run that direction before. Thanks, Doug.

More food for thought.
http://goccf.com/t/320672&SearchTer...thanks,,doug
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
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Side Note: Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.
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 Posted 01/08/2019  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the Feeder Finger damaged dimes are showing the horizontal line. So they must be setup that way.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
01/08/2019 1:12 pm
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 Posted 01/08/2019  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not sure if the same horizontal Schuler press(s) are still used in 2018,


Doug, all three mints are currently using Schuler presses for business strikes. I do not know what Philadelphia, San Francisco, or West Point are using for proof coins. Denver sold its many Bliss mechanical and two Bliss hydraulic presses several years ago in a couple GSA auctions (for much more than they were worth, I may add). I do not know if the other mints retained any of their older presses.
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 Posted 10/27/2019  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Trey78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are 6 2019 Feeder Finger Damage coins I found in a single bank roll





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