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Pillar of the Community
 United States
839 Posts |
SeatedNut, Yes, this is an 1847/6. It is a LDS and can be matched by the high and right of the date. The 1 lines up with an M3 which is only found in the 1847/6. The base of the 4 and the lower curl of the 6 is on the EDS (WB-102, WB-9) and not the LDS (WB-102, WB-10). All of the other 1847 varieties have the 1 lined up from l5 to M1. You can reference it in Bill Bugerts Register of Liberty Seated half dollar Vol 5. It is listed as a WB-102, WB 10. Please let me know what you think. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
Regardless, it is a details coin. Scratch and gouge. I cannot speak to the over date designation. Not a bad looking coin, but it has issues.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
If it is indeed the 47 over 6, a grade of F-12 in The Yeoman 2018 US Red Book states its value as $3500, and VG-08 as $2500. Catalogue then places it at around $2500 to $3000 ? I have no idea on value, just thought I'd chip in. Catalogue prices generally slightly inflated aren't they? I'm interested to know what it might be worth.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Mike, I don't have access to Vol V to verify date placement for the LDS coin, so I will trust your testimony. Your coin does indeed have an M3 placement and not an L5 or M1. If that is Mr Bugerts' diagnostic for the LDS, then congrats. I would concur with jpbone that with the obverse scratches and gouge this would only earn a details grade. Details Grades take away up to 75% of non-details values. For others not familiar with Mr Bugerts' date placement methodology, he references the middle three sets of vertical lines in Liberty's lower shield and calls them L (left), M (middle), and R (right). The line farthest left is L1, then L2, then L3 the spaces between lines are 4 and 5. M3 would be a vertical line dropped from the right-most middle line that follows down the right side of the 1 in 1847. We all learn something new every fay.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
839 Posts |
Yes, I agree with the details (unfortunately) but I am still happy that I have this in my collection. PCGS has an image of both the LDS and the EDS (FS-301) varieties.
Here is something interesting. PCGS has a total of 29 - 1847/6 (both varities combined) coins graded and NGC has 4 for a total of 33 graded 1847/6 coins. For the 1878 S, PCGS has 32 graded and NGC has 13 for a total of 45 graded 1878 S Half Dollars. There are only two other half dollars in the series that have less, the 1842 small date w/1839 reverse and the 1853 No Arrows, both have 4 known to exist.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
839 Posts |
So assuming that this is an 1847/6 and a grade of VG10 details, what would you say the value be on this?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Wow, $3K for an overdate that can't even be seen in a blown-up pic? I defer to you Seated Half guys, but this seems a bit nuts.  |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Yea,  w/ the Frog. When I expanded OP's pix, I see a solid 7, nothing around any edge of it where an over stamp would show. Really need to see side by side w/ OP's reference matls. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11983 Posts |
This is the list of every 1847/(6) half dollar sold by Heritage. https://www.ha.com/c/search-results...h-A-K-071316An 1847/(6) 50C LDS in XF45 CAC sold for $2,115 less than a month ago on April 27, 2017. An 1847/(6) 50C LDS in G4 sold for $1,410 less than a year ago on July 10, 2016. I would say your coin is worth $1,500. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/22/2017 9:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
839 Posts |
Here is an image of an EDS 1847/6 where you can see the 146.  This is an image of an LDS 1847/6 where there is no 146 visible.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11983 Posts |
I think this variety demonstrates an absurd aspect of numismatics. The expression that comes to mind is: "who cares?"
Rare - maybe; interesting - not a chance. Especially the invisible LDS O/D.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
839 Posts |
numismatic_student, what are your thoughts on the 1853 No Arrows Seated Liberty half dollar? It is the same as the 1853 Arrows Seated Liberty half dollar just missing the arrows (well, a few less of them)! This is what collecting is all about, trying to find and identify the rare and the subtle difference(s) in coins! The 1847 Seated Liberty half dollar has 8 different obverses and 9 different reverses with a total of 13 identified die marriages to date. Out of the 13, only two marriages match the 1847/6 and they have a total of no more than 125 possible coins in existence out of a mintage of 1,156,000. To me it is not about the 46 showing or not but the fact that the coin matches a rare die marriage. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11983 Posts |
It isn't my intention to knock people who study and collect die varieties in depth. I have a lot of respect for people who study narrow areas of numismatics in depth. I think they make an important contribution to numismatic knowledge. There are people in many different fields that have narrow, deep specialties: mathematics, science, art, etc. My point is that the people that are interested in invisible overdates is limited. Most people don't care. I'm going to get myself in trouble here, but I find the vast majority of VAMs uninteresting. I understand that specialists get excited, but for me... meh... Just my opinion. You are free to love what you want. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I'm pretty into VAMs, although nowhere near to the level of Twohawks/Dave/Cascade/etc, but I wouldn't argue with you that a lot of VAMs ARE uninteresting. Anything that takes me 20 minutes under a microscope to nail down is pretty uninteresting to me, although I appreciate the "fineness" of nailing down the particular dies used and their emission sequences/die stages.
That's one reason the Top 100 was created - to help collectors focus on the more-most interesting VAMs in the series. Same thing with the WOW! list, the Kimpton Elite / Super Clashed, etc.
JRCS, LSCC, EAC, C4, etc. all have their own obsessions with varieties, some much more in depth than others. But I suspect that even many members of those fine organizations would tell you that they're quite aware that their variety-oriented focus is not always likely to be shared by the general coin collecting public, and that's totally fine.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
And all of this is why I love numismatics! I can find something rare that I don't much care for and sell it to someone who is passionate about it. Then use those funds to acquire something I am passionate about. Win-Win!
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Posted 05/22/2017 12:56 pm
