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Liberty V Nickel- Shattered Die? What A Mess

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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2017  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list
Sometimes heating up the older nickels w/ a torch then dunking to quick cool (also known as "tempering") will cause mixed ally metals to stress crack like that. See it sometimes in burned buildings where rooves w/snow on top collapse, melting snow and putting out fire, around the beams and other metal structure? Could be, or just...blowing smoke!
Valued Member
United States
121 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  03:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ItchyN to your friends list
The collar die does strike the rim. But all this coin shows is post-strike damage.
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United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  03:53 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list

Quote:
The collar die does strike the rim.


What is a "collar die?"
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
Are those dark lines trenches or ridges?

If trenches, then it follows that the die that made them must have ridges in the corresponding places. I am not familiar with such a manner of Die Deterioration.

Quite an impressive error, if those dark lines on the coin are ridges! Then the die would have been very close to a catastrophic shattering.

Curious coin either way. A keeper.
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United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list
spruett001 asks:
Quote:
"What is a "collar die?"

A collar die is the "ring" that the planchet sets in while the dies come together and keep the coin from being spread out. A broadstruck coin is where the collar die was not involved in the striking of the coin. Some collar dies have reeds or lettering like on the dimes and quarters edges have reeds and Presidential dollars have lettering. Others like nickels and one cent coins they are plain.
Edited by TNG
05/26/2017 09:35 am
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10284 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list
I love this video. You can see the collar die working at 8:18 in the video. But the whole video awesome. I like where they are making a 1938 Jefferson master die around 2:45. Can I have that die set please?
mBjD9N1APsw
Edited by TNG
05/26/2017 09:37 am
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17884 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
I have seen that effect on coins that have been found in sewers. It is a form of corrosion, probably along some kind of grain boundaries.
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 Posted 05/26/2017  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list
Looks like PMD.
Great vid, NickelGuy!
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 Posted 05/26/2017  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list
PMD, not an error or die cracks.
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 Posted 05/26/2017  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
I like the heat theory.



to the CCF!
Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list
To bad for that coin , 1888 V-Nickel was a tough year for them . Check out the price of a mid circ. 88
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12477 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2017  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list

Quote:
Some collar dies have reeds or lettering like on the dimes and quarters edges have reeds and Presidential dollars have lettering. Others like nickels and one cent coins they are plain.


I know this is straying off topic but, the reason I asked is because I don't think I've heard it referred to as a collar die, just collar. It does make sense in the case of adding reeding or lettering.

However, I thought I remembered watching a video of the edge lettering being added in a separate process similar to upsetting (at least on modern coins). I did a quick search and found this on smalldollars.com:


Quote:
RIGHT SIDE UP vs. UPSIDE DOWN EDGE LETTERING

For business strikes, the edge lettering is being applied in a seperate process after the obverse and reverse are struck. The struck coins are run through the edge lettering machine at a high speed without reguard to whether they are facing obverse up or reverse up.

...

The edge lettering on proof coins is applied by a different process than on business strikes. It is applied when the coin is struck.


I assume that proof edge-lettering is applied with the strike to avoid damage being run through a high-speed machine and to insure that the lettering orientation is consistent.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
05/26/2017 11:32 pm
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17884 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2017  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
You assume correctly. Although even withthe proofs errors crept in. On some of the Jeffereson proofs the edge die segments, were installed in the wrong order. Instead of 2009 S IN GOD WE TRUST E PLURIBUS UNUM THE EDGE READS 2009 S E PLURIBUS UNUM IN GOD WE TRUST. Surprisingly no one has paid any attention to this proof error and most people don't even know about it. After it was discovered changes were made to the die segments so they can't be put in the wrong order.
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 Posted 06/13/2017  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list
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21788 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2017  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
I think that Conder101 is closest to the correct answer.
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