Fake Coins And Grading Companies

There is no guarantee that they will send it back.Worse yet they may grade it as a genuine coin and then change their opinion. PCGS Collectors Club Agreement section 3h states including but not limited to retaining such coins for an indefinite period of time
Currently I have 2 PCGS slabs that contain counterfeit shillings. I told them that they were counterfeit so PCGS has demanded that I send them back. They are trying to force me to send them by removing the certification of a number of other (genuine) coins that I own.

Your coin fake or not, is not theirs; they must send it back.

I can't see anything wrong with a TPGrader sending it back slabbed, ungraded, with a single unexplained comment:
"FAKE".
Some fake determinations can involve considerable work. If this may be the case for them, they may sent it back:
"Considered probable fake, ungraded".
They have a right to charge a standard fee and be paid for this service, and get on with their business.

Third Party Graders are just that. They may have entirely different fee scales for fake determinations.

basebal21, they have already changed their description to counterfeit and that they are fake is not in question as others with the same dies have also had their certifications removed. As for everybody claiming that they will send the fakes back that is but an option for them and not a certainty.

I have never heard of a case where they didn't send the submitted coin back even when it was determined to be a fake. If they didn't they would be opening themselves up to the possibility of being charged with just tell the submitter it was a fake so they could steal their genuine coin. They don't need the headache, so they just send them back.

basebal21 the cert numbers are 35021219 to 35021226 inclusive where 35021221 and 35021222 are designated counterfeit. The other 6 numbers are all for genuine coins but don't appear if you do a cert lookup. However they still appear when you do an order lookup (submission number 171597 and order number 21393693).
You guys need to read that fine print that I quoted; section 3h allows them to keep fakes permanently if they want to (and legally they can though probably 99.9% of times they will return the fake).
Oh and section 5 authorizes them to sell the slabbed fake. That was specified in the in the email that David Talk sent me.
So which of you guys have actually had to deal with slabbed fakes or are you basing your opinions on what?

Hi Crazyb0. There are at least 20 of these fakes that have been recently identified. Not all have been decertified as yet as their existence only came to light just over 2 months ago and involves a number of years that have been slabbed by PCGS (1911, 1914, 1916, 1917 and 1925 in the shillings plus possibly other years and denominations). The fine print doesn't have me over a barrel as judgments in Californian courts would be of little use against someone in Australia and I have the 2 items securely locked away in my black box collection.

Basebal21: Section 5 includes any label errors including counterfeit coins (that is why PCGS are invoking that clause for my 2 fakes). The specific wording includes the submitter indemnifying PCGS against any and all losses caused by the sale of any incorrectly described coin (so no guarantee of ever getting the coin back). I'm basing my opinion on an actual fact (the email from David Talk)
This isn't a warranty claim. I never had any intention of making a claim and they are demanding I send them back.
Section 3h is in the PCGS collectors Club Agreement (it has 10 sections and is available online). This agreement isn't on the back of the submission form but is still applicable (the exact wording in the Agreement is "Use of PCGS's coin grading services signifies Customers agreement to the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement".
Have you ever read the Agreement?
The OP is uncertain if his coin is fake, if he sends it in they may grade it (do you dispute that fact?). They may subsequently change that opinion after sending the slabbed coin to the owner (do you dispute that fact?) They may then demand the coin be sent back to them by invoking section 5 (do you dispute that fact?) They may then invoke their clauses and retain the coin indefinitely (section 5) or sell the coin (as bullion?) or destroy it with the indemnity of section 3h (do you dispute what those clauses mean?)
And yes under normal circumstances they will sent the fake back (but you have to be prepared for them not sending them back as otherwise PCGS wouldn't need those clauses worded as they are)
For my 2 fakes their demand of return has nothing to do with the possibility of me being the maker (I'm the numismatologist who identified the scope of these fakes, published an article on the fakes and also advised PCGS of these fakes)