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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Which would not bode well for the Carr over-strikes as they are already in murky water. Not at all. The mint already took the position that they never made them, not his fault if they lied. Quote:
Between 1933 and 1944 the 1933 double eagles were openly sold and advertised for sale as well. But there are some major differences. The major one is obviously that the nickles have been sold for decades and decades now not a short time where they were then perused because the government needed to protect the value of the one they sold. Also in the case of the nickels there hasn't been an "expert" discredit themselves on a coin forum during the trial like what happened to the Langboards since you would never bring someone back already discredited by a court. If they go after the nickels and win it's time to sell everything that's not a modern and go back to collecting pocket change and moderns. Every error, every pattern, every variety, really everything would just be when is someone going to try and make a career taking these back Edited by basebal21
10/11/2018 6:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
How Israel Swift acquired the coins is pure speculation. The government can not prove that the coins were stolen form the mint, and the Langboards can not prove the coins were obtained legally from the mint. The real crime is how the US Government duped the Langboards into handing over the coins for authentication and today our Government parading the coin around the country like a long lost treasure.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1613 Posts |
Nice to see others on the same page with all the other "non-release" coinage like the Barber dime and Peace dollar to name a few. But then again, only one of them is gold. And isn't that all our government seems to care about these days? Protecting their gold. By the way JimBucks, been following the 1964 Peace dollar as well. Have several articles published by Coin World and The Numismatist. Fascinating. ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
@Ballyhoo If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading the book Illegal Tender by David Tripp. It follows the story and investigation from its very beginning through the legal sale of the supposed Farouk example. It is unfortunate that so many that survived have been confiscated and some melted into oblivion. I believe Switt's daughter knew what she had and was testing the waters. However, she may not have known exactly why the alleged Farouk coin was allowed to be sold, i.e. the export license. That was the "oops!" moment. I have a feeling they may have more. Switt was a middleman in this case, I believe. The theft originated, most likely, with the head cashier George McCann. But, we'll never know for sure and that's why it's all such an interesting story!  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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.. I believe Switt's daughter knew what she had and was testing the waters. However, she may not have known exactly why the alleged Farouk coin was allowed to be sold, i.e. the export license. That was the "oops!" moment.
I have a feeling they may have more These kind of posts drive me up the wall in all honesty. The actual family who voluntarily turned them over for authentication posted on the CU thread about them before. There's no reason not to believe people that would voluntarily turn over 10 of them. Check out the litigation. They got hosed by forum comments from someone they relied on. Would it have made a difference we don't know. What we do know though is rampant sepeculation from feelings is never a good thing |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
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These kind of posts drive me up the wall in all honesty. Well, you must have reached the ceiling quite a while ago.  Quote:
What we do know though is rampant sepeculation from feelings is never a good thing That's all you're going to get. Where's the proof of anything? The entire saga is amazingly lacking in any proof of anything, whatsoever. No one can prove that the only "legal" example is, in fact, the coin purchased by Farouk. How the actual coins escaped the Mint has never been proven. Quote:
There's no reason not to believe people that would voluntarily turn over 10 of them. Why is that? I am sure they are innocent saints... The timing of their actions is quite suspicious, no? There is no telling how many coins they actually possess(ed). I can see that sending ten examples in, in good faith, would be acceptable if you had hundreds more awaiting a legal classification. Why 10? 10 was the original number of extant examples. Then, another ten pops up? The human propensity is showing there a bit. This all suggests that Israel Switt had 20, total. It's funny he only dealt 10 of them. Maybe he did, and maybe he did not. Everyone directly involved with the "theft" is dead, so... None of this matters in any case, and that's why I said: Quote:
But, we'll never know for sure and that's why it's all such an interesting story! In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
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If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading the book Illegal Tender by David Tripp. It follows the story and investigation from its very beginning through the legal sale of the supposed Farouk example. I agree the book is an interesting read, but keep in mind that David Tripp was a paid government expert in the Langboards case because his views on Israel Swift and the coins fit nicely with the US Government. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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However, she may not have known exactly why the alleged Farouk coin was allowed to be sold, i.e. the export license. That was the "oops!" moment.
I feel fairly should she did as she turned them over on the advice of the same lawyer that had defended Fenton. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Why is that? I am sure they are innocent saints... The timing of their actions is quite suspicious, no? Like I said just rampant speculation about them and their motives when they had already commented on them with their own words on another forum. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:
I feel fairly should she did as she turned them over on the advice of the same lawyer that had defended Fenton. But that again begs the question: How many did she have, exactly? Maybe she was trying to do the "right thing" by returning them to the Treasury, but 10 of those in 2004 was over $4,000 in gold melt value and gold coins could and can be legally melted. It's one angle of many.  Yes, speculation even. As far as David Tripp goes, I found his book to be thoroughly researched and generally unbiased. I have not investigated the Langboard's case, so I cannot say why exactly he would be called upon other than his knowledge and research of the history/events. I will say that his book, in the end, presented more questions than answers because of the nature of the investigation and the prerogatives of the parties involved. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
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Not at all. The mint already took the position that they never made them, not his fault if they lied. My point is if they were found to exist it would be evidence that they were indeed minted and that would make the over-strikes illegal according to the law. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
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But that again begs the question: How many did she have, exactly? Maybe she was trying to do the "right thing" by returning them to the Treasury, but 10 of those in 2004 was over $4,000 in gold melt value and gold coins could and can be legally melted. It's one angle of many. Why would Longboards have the coins melted as the Langboards had an written agreement with the the US Government that the coins would be returned after authentication. The coins were pronounced genuine by the mint, but the coins were never returned after repeated requests. The US Government refuses to return the coins and while the case was still under trial, the mint has the 10 1933 coins graded. What gave the mint the right to have the coins graded while the Langboard case was still active? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
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Why would Longboards have the coins melted as the Langboards had an written agreement with the the US Government that the coins would be returned after authentication. The coins were pronounced genuine by the mint, but the coins were never returned after repeated requests. What's the argument here? If the agreement was there (I don't know), then why didn't the government return them? I suppose that's why I brought up the melting. Why would they actually think what the government considered "stolen property" to be freely returned? I guess I need to investigate the Langboards' case because not much of what I've heard of their actions makes sense to me.  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I guess I need to investigate the Langboards' case because not much of what I've heard of their actions makes sense to me. You've heard a lot of nonsense overall (which everyone has) which really comes out in the trial. It's pretty straight forward why they did what they did and they addressed it several times. Looking into the case will very likely give you a different perspective or at the very least see the inconsistencies You can find quite a few of these from the various courts https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOU...-05315-7.pdfOne of many articles https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...es-.all.htmlEdited by basebal21
10/14/2018 12:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Quote:
I guess I need to investigate the Langbords' case because not much of what I've heard of their actions makes sense to me. Read the thread at CU "Did the Langbords file an Appeal about the 1933 Double Eagles". RHL in the thread is the grandson of Israel Swift and provides the Langbords version of what happened at trial, and how the coins were discovered in a safe, and why the decisions were made about the coins. Edited by Slider23
10/14/2018 12:31 am
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Posted 10/11/2018 6:37 pm
