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1933 Double Eagle conclusion.

 
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Valued Member
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 Posted 10/10/2018  5:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This should be a hot topic. My take on the Government's stance that no 1933's are legal based on none being monetized? First, the Philadelphia mint records show that some were released from the coinier to the cashier. There was about a three month window between minting (January to March) and selling directly at the mint's counter. Which I believe is where Israel Swift acquired them, legally. Second, at the end of the quarter/year, were their books balanced? In other words, were the amount dispensed versues what was received equal? If so, then there is no theft. Even exchanging one for the other.
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 Posted 10/10/2018  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This was litigated several years ago all the way to the Supreme Court. The Government won.

Case closed (maybe!).
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 Posted 10/10/2018  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just wait until they find a bag of 1964 Peace dollars.
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 Posted 10/10/2018  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heck, the Gov't could legally go after the 1913 Liberty nickels.
And then there's the aluminum cents.
And maybe others that I can't think of at the moment.

Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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 Posted 10/10/2018  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Heck, the Gov't could legally go after the 1913 Liberty nickels.


Not really legally. They basically forfeited any potential claim by not pursing them and allowing their open sale repeatedly which of course was highly publicized.
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 Posted 10/10/2018  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple earlier discussions on this topic:

http://goccf.com/t/122024
http://goccf.com/t/277407
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 10/11/2018  01:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There was about a three month window between minting (January to March)

Window wasn't that long, the double eagle production didn't begin until March 2nd. I do not recall the date the 1933 double eagles were placed in the cashiers window, but it was before April 12 ans April 12 was when the order came down the echanges of gold coin for gold coins would no longer be allowed at the mint cashier's window. The period when exchange was possible was at least a week long. And yes at the end of the year the books did balance. If they left during that time it was through a like kind exchange not outright theft.


Quote:
Not really legally. They basically forfeited any potential claim by not pursing them and allowing their open sale repeatedly

Between 1933 and 1944 the 1933 double eagles were openly sold and advertised for sale as well.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 10/11/2018  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just wait until they find a bag of 1964 Peace dollars.
Which would not bode well for the Carr over-strikes as they are already in murky water.


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Heck, the Gov't could legally go after the 1913 Liberty nickels.
Not really legally. They basically forfeited any potential claim by not pursing them and allowing their open sale repeatedly
Between 1933 and 1944 the 1933 double eagles were openly sold and advertised for sale as well.
Interesting.
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 Posted 10/11/2018  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So what do I do with an entire roll of those?
just carl
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 Posted 10/11/2018  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Auction them off individually over a period of time, of course.
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 Posted 10/11/2018  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Which would not bode well for the Carr over-strikes as they are already in murky water.


Not at all. The mint already took the position that they never made them, not his fault if they lied.


Quote:
Between 1933 and 1944 the 1933 double eagles were openly sold and advertised for sale as well.


But there are some major differences. The major one is obviously that the nickles have been sold for decades and decades now not a short time where they were then perused because the government needed to protect the value of the one they sold. Also in the case of the nickels there hasn't been an "expert" discredit themselves on a coin forum during the trial like what happened to the Langboards since you would never bring someone back already discredited by a court.

If they go after the nickels and win it's time to sell everything that's not a modern and go back to collecting pocket change and moderns. Every error, every pattern, every variety, really everything would just be when is someone going to try and make a career taking these back
Edited by basebal21
10/11/2018 6:09 pm
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 Posted 10/11/2018  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How Israel Swift acquired the coins is pure speculation. The government can not prove that the coins were stolen form the mint, and the Langboards can not prove the coins were obtained legally from the mint. The real crime is how the US Government duped the Langboards into handing over the coins for authentication and today our Government parading the coin around the country like a long lost treasure.
Valued Member
United States
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 Posted 10/11/2018  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice to see others on the same page with all the other "non-release" coinage like the Barber dime and Peace dollar to name a few. But then again, only one of them is gold. And isn't that all our government seems to care about these days? Protecting their gold. By the way JimBucks, been following the 1964 Peace dollar as well. Have several articles published by Coin World and The Numismatist. Fascinating.
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 Posted 10/12/2018  12:22 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Ballyhoo

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading the book Illegal Tender by David Tripp. It follows the story and investigation from its very beginning through the legal sale of the supposed Farouk example.

It is unfortunate that so many that survived have been confiscated and some melted into oblivion. I believe Switt's daughter knew what she had and was testing the waters. However, she may not have known exactly why the alleged Farouk coin was allowed to be sold, i.e. the export license. That was the "oops!" moment.

I have a feeling they may have more. Switt was a middleman in this case, I believe. The theft originated, most likely, with the head cashier George McCann. But, we'll never know for sure and that's why it's all such an interesting story!
Such Oxygen!

My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 10/12/2018  01:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.. I believe Switt's daughter knew what she had and was testing the waters. However, she may not have known exactly why the alleged Farouk coin was allowed to be sold, i.e. the export license. That was the "oops!" moment.

I have a feeling they may have more


These kind of posts drive me up the wall in all honesty.

The actual family who voluntarily turned them over for authentication posted on the CU thread about them before. There's no reason not to believe people that would voluntarily turn over 10 of them. Check out the litigation. They got hosed by forum comments from someone they relied on. Would it have made a difference we don't know.

What we do know though is rampant sepeculation from feelings is never a good thing
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 Posted 10/12/2018  02:21 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These kind of posts drive me up the wall in all honesty.


Well, you must have reached the ceiling quite a while ago.


Quote:
What we do know though is rampant sepeculation from feelings is never a good thing


That's all you're going to get. Where's the proof of anything? The entire saga is amazingly lacking in any proof of anything, whatsoever. No one can prove that the only "legal" example is, in fact, the coin purchased by Farouk. How the actual coins escaped the Mint has never been proven.


Quote:
There's no reason not to believe people that would voluntarily turn over 10 of them.


Why is that? I am sure they are innocent saints... The timing of their actions is quite suspicious, no? There is no telling how many coins they actually possess(ed). I can see that sending ten examples in, in good faith, would be acceptable if you had hundreds more awaiting a legal classification. Why 10? 10 was the original number of extant examples. Then, another ten pops up? The human propensity is showing there a bit.

This all suggests that Israel Switt had 20, total. It's funny he only dealt 10 of them. Maybe he did, and maybe he did not. Everyone directly involved with the "theft" is dead, so...

None of this matters in any case, and that's why I said:


Quote:
But, we'll never know for sure and that's why it's all such an interesting story!

Such Oxygen!

My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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