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What's The Logic Used In Key Dates Getting Less Valuable Over Time?

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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  03:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Some key dates go down as total collector demand decreases - prime example in the last 10 years is the 1909-S VDB, which has stabilized somewhat but really sunk quite a bit in the early 2010s.


Price adjustments aren't necessarily a election of lack of demand. Over the last 10 years the internet market has absolutely exploded and phones basically turned into laptops that even 10 years ago we were no where close to what we were five years ago or today.

Not all keys are equal, some were keys because of the historic allure of them, some are grade rarity keys, others are actually keys. The internet market and the accessibility of both has pulled back the curtain on what is actually available.

Take the S VDB that you mentioned. 40 years ago, or 30 years ago, really even 20 years ago that was a magically coin. People were sold on it being the key date, something very special that is hard to find. People were basically at the mercy of what their LCS or a local show had. Then along comes the internet and now if you had the money with the possible exception of the very top grade you can basically build a grading set of them in 20 minutes online.

ebay alone has a couple hundred S VDBs at any given time. The new availability of the internet market and exposure of what is actually out there has caused prices to adjust on things once thought to be hard to find.

No longer is someone dependent on the local supply as basically the whole supply chain is opened up to them now. Diamonds aren't rare at all, but their supply chain is controlled just like the coin supply chain used to be. Now that the control is gone prices are/have adjusted as collectors and the market have reacted to the new open supply visibility.

Could it go back up sure, could it go down more sure,
but when comparing pre and post internet marketing pricing a lot more is in play than simple demand
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
I basically Ignor any mention of the future values of any coins. This to me is just a hobby, not an investment. Coins should not be used as an investment unless your a dealer. Regardless of key dates or just normal coins, I just want to fill up an Album. As one gets older future values mean less and less since less of a future. So if my 09S Lincoln Cents loose a little value, so what. Just one coin in an Album.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  08:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
Prices go up, prices go down.
I only keep a very loose check on price trends.
Why?
Overall, over a 50 year time period, the price trends of collectible coins is about 3% per year, compounded. Only a bit less than for stocks and bonds.

Be a lifetime collector - less hassles! What then does a long term collector care about the price ?
A dealer may worry - he has to make a profit on short term turnover (cash flow).
Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list
As Boomers pass on, possibly less demand over time due to fewer collectors.
Been to a show lately? Have to admit, it's an old man's hobby.

Let the piling on commence!
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
Edited by fistfulladirt
03/10/2019 10:23 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list
I don't think there are any guarantees that key date coins or any other coins for that matter will hold their value over time. They might, but if people lose interest in coin collecting (which seems possible given that cash and change is declining in usage), collectible coins will fall in value. Too many sets being passed along to heirs that have no interest will lead to excessive supply with lower demand. That means lower prices typically.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
"less over time" can also simply refer to the fact that they will not rise in value as quickly as higher grade specimens.
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2019  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lionel90 to your friends list
Very interesting topic -thanks.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
Been to a show lately? Have to admit, it's an old man's hobby.

Basically true however, this sort of depends on where you have gone to coin shows. By me shows have deminished a bit but I suspect mostly due to on line dealings. Why travel all over the place when your fingers can do the buying with places like ebay. At one of the many coin shows by me I've seen many people with their kids. And not all dealers deal only in US coins and one has lots of jewelry too. Actually I purchased a really nice knife at a coin show last Sunday.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
999 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cdncoins to your friends list
You can go on the PCGS site and look at the price history over time since 2004. A lot of prices today are very similar to what they were back then. So yes, the key dates will hold their value, but actually decrease in value after inflation.
Valued Member
United States
392 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lionel90 to your friends list
I haven't bought any keys yet so I'm hoping they fall in price but I expect they won't. If anything goes down in price it may be the cheaper coins if there are fewer people getting into the hobby. Serious collectors will always want the keys and that keeps the prices high.
CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list
A lot of collector interest in assembling complete date sets has waned, so many key dates have lost premiums. There are some that have always held strong. The 1916-D Mercury dime in AG-03 has always been popular and people look for that grade. It gets too expensive in higher grades so they look for the $300 coin they can sell for $350.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2019  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
Been to a show lately? Have to admit, it's an old man's hobby.

Been to a show any time in the past hundred years? It's ALWAYS been an old man's hobby.
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United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2019  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Pretty much. I am starting to look like most of the people I have seen at the shows all my life.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2019  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list
Yeah, the shows haven't changed - I have!
Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2019  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list
In truth, I feel like most US types are a bubble that has been ready to pop for decades. I understand the appeal of collecting from your own country, but the prices that ordinary 19th century US coins get is absurd!

I nearly completed my Japanese type set (Tokugawa and modern, no gold, no Trade dollar, no 1870 yen) in mostly XF/AU for about $1k, and that includes a few key dates. 150-175 coins in total; can't remember exactly.

I've nearly completed my ancient Roman set (Augustus through Valentinian III in the west, Justinian in the east) with 96 bona fide emperors, or 144 people (including wives, children that died before taking power) and spent less than most people do on a complete 7070 with gold. (And that's with about 50% in silver, nearly all in high grade. Two of my coins are unique; several are known from only a few specimens; fifteen of the emperors I own were in power for only a few months and only minted a few thousand coins total)

My interest in US classics lasted only as long as it took me to figure out what else was out there, and what gave the best bang for the buck. I've noticed that of the YN who grow up to become more serious collectors in young adulthood, many of us are drifting away from overpriced bust coinage and grade-fetishism and investing ourselves and our money into cheaper world coins and ancients. I might get into US coins eventually, but only after the bubble bursts and we see early US coinage fall into line with their worldwide contemporaries.
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