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Bicentennial Kennedy Half-Dollar With Doubling And Tone Shift

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First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 2,212Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
1543 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2019  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list
Color changes are almost always due to environmental damage, most of that looks to be Machine Doubling
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2019  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I agree with Machine Doubling on both sides of the coin. Nothing is enlarged, but reduced in size. Not seeing DDD. ( Die Deterioration Doubling)
Edited by coop
11/14/2019 7:22 pm
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2019  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
That's annoying. It seemed too pronounced to me to be DDD, but I can see where it's only on the side.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2019  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Only one listed on Variety Visa, but it is a proof not the business strike. 1976-S
http://www.varietyvista.com/12%20Ke...6SDDR001.htm
Take a look and see what a DDR could look like on that reverse. (note the smaller devices)
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
Coop, since you seem particularly knowledgeable about this can you explain something like these two 1957 pennies, which are clearly different. Is this another example of Mechanical Doubling? I apologize if this is a stupid question. I just often have a hard time picking them out on older coins.
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Edited by BarlowAdams
11/15/2019 01:22 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10635 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  02:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list
Barlow, please take a look at the link to Machine Doubling. It will help you understand what exactly it is.
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
I did. Very comprehensive. Impressively put together. The way it reduces details makes sense. But I still don't always see it, I guess. On the 1957 above, the letters seem obviously thicker on one of the coins. Is that an optical illusion from the color difference of the two coins, or is that an error of some kind?
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
I should also note that the "lighter" of the two pennies weighs 2.89 and the heavier 3.1.
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
Here's some more details from the Kennedy, obverse and reverse.
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Some of the 1957-D cents have a monster MD issue that I call push doubling:
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
But on your coins, it looks like a contact mark altered the devices. On the first coin on the 'L' area, you can see a contact mark on the rim of the coin to the left of that device. This is just damage. On the first coin on on the date area, there also appears to be damage to the '9' on the date. On the second coin the date the '9 & 5' both looks like they took a hit. I think they are both normal coins, but the color of the coins are distracting you, also the contact marks as well. So when I question a coins sizes of devices, I use a side by side process of a normal coin image cropped horizontally to the same width of the outside devices, then compare each one with a normal set of devices. In this case, You could put the normal coin in the center and put one below the normal coin and one above the normal coin. Then you can see them side by side:
Sometimes horizontal:
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift

Sometimes vertical:
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift

Sometimes both:

Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift

This allows you to see without taking your eyes off the image to look somewhere else and loose the exact sizes when not having them side by side. Seeing is often understanding.
Edited by coop
11/15/2019 5:14 pm
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
What gave me pause on the pennies was the 5's on the 1957s. See how the lighter tones coin's five has a sort of hump on it? Is that damage or something akin to a Cud error?

I appreciate your help. &
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
The damage to the devices can make them look different/wider/taller. That is why I suggested the side by sides. Make all horizontal with the date tops, crop to the outside widths and exact size them, and that will help:
coin 1
normal coin
coin 2

Having them in that position you will be what is going on.

I just checked Variety vista. Seems like most of these doubled dies were on Liberty. Only two were the dates affected.
http://www.varietyvista.com/01a%20L...201957-D.htm
Edited by coop
11/15/2019 6:00 pm
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2019  8:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
Here's a look at Liberty on both.
Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift


Bicentennial-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-With-Doubling-And-Tone-Shift
Edited by BarlowAdams
11/15/2019 9:04 pm
Valued Member
United States
69 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2019  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BarlowAdams to your friends list
I think I'm starting to understand. Damage cuts away. DD adds. Still, that second one looks like legit doubling to me. Am I mistaken?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2019  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
With the circulation flattening, it is hard to say what was there? The rounding over of the devices are damaged/rounded over.
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