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1918-D Buffalo...you Vs NGC And ANACS

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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list
Typical weakish strike.
I can go XF-45.
Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list
ANACS- AU53 , NGC- MS-63
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United States
7293 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  10:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list
I'll say Anacs AU 58, NGC MS 64, my personal opinion is AU58
New Member
United States
39 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gunbarrelcoins to your friends list

Looks like a typical weaker strike, no obvious signs of wear, few marks, looks like it's toning slightly. MS63
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Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list
ANACS AU-58, NGC MS-62
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United States
3669 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
Nice coin! This has the nice look of an old album coin.

Matching EMDS dies. This is evident in the obverse detail of the strong date, full ribbons, and full rachis and calamus on the second feather. This is evident on the reverse on the separation of "F" of FIVE and "S" of CENTS from the rim, neck and beard detail, and strong EPU. Note the beginning of a small rim Cud at 11:00 on the reverse and the small die chip inside the curl of the tail. This may lead to die pair identification some day.

Weak strike, even for 1918-D. The obverse die appears to have been seated very slightly off, evident on the weaker than normal LIBERTY and stronger than normal date.

Minimal die clashing and die polishing. The chin/EPU clash is minimal, with very little polishing at the chin and none at EPU. The second feather / buffalo's head clash is much more evident, with fairly strong polishing on the buffalo's head and a still-evident "spike" between the head and the "U" of UNITED. The obverse feather tip has been abraded partially. The "LIB" / right rear leg clash is moderate, with evident polishing above "IB" and heavy polishing on the right rear leg and between the legs. All in all, that is moderate clashing and polishing.

The surfaces are in excellent shape, with nice light golden toning. The obverse has either a struck-through or scratch near the rim at 11:00, a noticeable scratch descending from the nose past the chin, a slight rim ding at 3:00, and a small scratch (possibly on the holder) near 12:00. The reverse has a rim ding at 12:00, minor surface scratches beneath the buffalo's head, a deeper scratch behind the buffalo's left front lower leg, and a surface scratch on the buffalo's front shoulder. Minor album abrasions exist on both the obverse and reverse.

IMHO, a well-struck example with this appearance would hit MS-64 easily. The strike weakness is the major deterrent to a 64 here. I believe NGC would see the obverse as MS-64, reverse as MS-63+, net MS-63+, with an eye appeal strike adjustment downward to MS-63. I fear that ANACS saw the toning, album scratches, and weak strike as evidence of light circulation, and came in at AU-58.

I'm not a fan of CAC, but if this one is below MS-63, I'd recommend sending it in for a bean assessment.

Again, tough date and a nice coin.
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 Posted 11/26/2020  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
Quite the range so far! Will give it another day, and post results tomorrow afternoon.
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United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2020  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
I'm the outlier here and deserve a kick in the !*# for grading this from a cell phone. Agree AU-50 or better.
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18717 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2020  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list
MS63

learning experience: what is EPU?
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United States
3669 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2020  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
Just shorthand for E PLURIBUS UNUM.
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4680 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2020  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
So ANACS gave this a straight graded XF-40. Felt that was very low so I cracked it and included this in my last NGC sub. This is the holder it currently resides. No signs of a cleaning that I can see in hand, not sure what NGC saw in this. Not sure what's in store for this one. Not looking for any Details grades in the AU-MS slabbed Buff set I'm currently working on.

1918-D-Buffalo...you-Vs-NGC-And-ANACS
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 Posted 11/27/2020  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list
Cleaned?
Next time NGC gives one of your coins a Details grade you should demand they give you an explanation for that grade.
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 Posted 11/27/2020  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
That makes 3 different Buffs that NGC has said were cleaned that both ANACS and PCGS straight graded. Seems like all 3 TPGs are very inconsistent on this series, which has made completing this set quite interesting.
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 Posted 11/28/2020  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
They saw the album rub as a cleaning. That coin is original. The light gold toning is not disrupted, and is a dead giveaway for a very old album coin. (For one, the old Wayte Raymond albums were notorious for gold toning nickel coins.) It also isn't circulated. The weak strike is evident.

Next time NGC does this, crack it out and leave it raw. The bourse floor will know what it is.

TPGs generally do well with the easier to grade series, but they have always struggled with Buffs, SLQs, and Commems, and don't get me started on how poorly they perform with Canadian and Provincial coins.

JMHO.
Edited by fortcollins
11/28/2020 12:50 pm
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 Posted 11/28/2020  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
Thanks FC! If this wasn't going in my slabbed set I'd definitely crack it now. I'll probably just leave it be, and when the time comes to upgrade it, I'll just crack it and slap it in one of my Dansco albums.
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