Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1910 Lincoln Wheat Cent, For Grading

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,687Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
I'll say MS-63RB, possibly BN.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19963 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
63, some deep, active corrosion on it.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
Pillar of the Community
United States
1361 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list
Yeah, you need to get me a bottle of verdicare asap BadThad....
Pillar of the Community
United States
3660 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
I've said this before, but the 1910 Lincoln Proof is an enigma.
The mintage was either 2,405 or 4,113. People strongly cling to one of the numbers, but nobody really knows.
There was only one die pair used for the mintage.
TPGs claim that very few exist. @KYCopperCoins has shown that far more are in the wild than would be expected. My experience in shows (back when they existed) echoes that.
There are well known die markers for this proof, yet virtually none of the proofs exhibit all of the die markers, and some exhibit additional die markers that haven't been recognized.
Nobody knows whether the proof dies were used for business strike coins.

This coin shows several of the known markers. It also shows a prominent die scratch that isn't one of the known markers (the vertical scratch between the "L" and "I" of LIBERTY).

Multiple choice time:
(A) This coin is a business strike, but inexplicably has many of the same markers as the known proof.
(B) This coin is a proof from the original proof run, which may or may not have been 2,405 coins, but inexplicably has a prominent die marker not identified for that proof.
(C) This coin is struck from the proof dies either as a second run of proofs, bringing the total mintage to 4,113, or as a specimen coin run after the official proof mintage was completed. If so, the dies were polished before this run, explaining the additional marker and why some of the lesser markers aren't visible.

My hunch is (C), but there is zero evidence in the mint records of a second proof run. Given the shenanigans at the mint during this era (1913 nickels or 1907 proof high relief double eagles or 1910 VDB cents, anyone?), anything is possible.

As for the technical grade, I think it makes a Something-64, but the surface corrosion is serious. Depending on whether it can be conserved, it would either be a Something-64 or Something Details. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward this being a proof.


Quote:
and no, I'm not gonna leave any in the wild before you ask Fortcollins!

Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Kinda whacked up, milk spotted and tinged with ED. Not a fan.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1361 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list
Yeah, but for 50 bucks I'll buy matte proofs all day long.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5780 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2021  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
I'm not real familiar with early Lincoln proof cents so please forgive this question if the answer seems obvious to others.

There appears to be a very slight Rim Fin above IGWT and around the right wheat suggesting a slight tilt to the dies or a slight misalignment of the dies.
Is this fairly common for proof coins? All the ones I've been fortunate to see seem to have well centered and consistent, uniform rims.

ps. There also seems to be some "roundness" to the rim gutter on the obverse at K4 to K9 and reverse at K3 to K4. Is this normal on some older dies used for proof coins or is this an indication of proof dies being used for circulation struck coins.

Thanks for taking the time to educate and help a fellow collector that loves Lincoln copper.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55
10/08/2021 08:36 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3660 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2021  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
@Petespockets55, Excellent points and questions.

The short answer is no, it isn't common on the early Lincoln proofs except for 1910, where apparently anything is possible.

The really frustrating thing about 1910 proofs is that there are far too many of them in existence to match the proof mintage figures, but far too few of them in existence to suggest a production run of business strikes with the former proof dies. There is nothing in the mint records to help resolve the questions.

Soooo, I'm at

EDIT: The one for-sure thing is that @KYCopperCoins will eventually have all of them.
Edited by fortcollins
10/08/2021 5:04 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1361 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2021  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list
Here's my favorite one in my collection speaking of that, doubt I've shared it lol.
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2021  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Well that's just nuts!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5780 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2021  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list

Quote:
.... but far too few of them in existence to suggest a production run of business strikes with the former proof dies...


This is a stretch but what about the possibility of using the proof dies to finish out the year for the quota? I could see the mint getting close and a worker seeing a mostly "fresh" die just sitting there.

I know this is all speculation without documentation, but if they modified a VDB reverse to use in 1910 they certainly could have put a "perfectly" good die to use to finish the production instead of tossing it. I can hear the old-timer saying "Waste not, want not!" as he inserted the die.

Again, I'm not familiar with the proof Lincolns but is there any indication on the 1910 coins with the additional die markers and die scratches why they may have needed to be polished (Clashes, struckthrough, etc.) and continue with proof production. A production run of +-4000 coins doesn't seem like there would be much need for maintenance.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your in-depth knowledge. I like stretching my thought process. The old gray matter ain't what it used to be!!
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Valued Member
United States
92 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffaloIronTail to your friends list
Look at the edge. That should tell the whole story. If you have a razor edge, it's a proof.

If you have a chamfered edge, it's circulated.

Pete
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Sorry, you are over-simplifying this, especially for the 1910 issues.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list

Quote:
Sorry, you are over-simplifying this, especially for the 1910 issues.


Agreed
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19963 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list

Quote:
There appears to be a very slight Rim Fin above IGWT and around the right wheat suggesting a slight tilt to the dies or a slight misalignment of the dies.


I missed that! Good eye! I have never see a Rim Fin on a proof Lincoln. IMHO, that right there makes it a business strike.

Personally, I've always held with the theory that proof dies were sometimes retired and made into business dies. To my knowledge, nobody has proof of that...or anything else from the era. I also ascribe the the theory that the mint may have experimented on production dies using the sandblasting method - they simply released the test specimens to circulation.

The evidence they used retired proof dies we need may lie in coins like this. It's EDS and the markers have not yet been obliterated fully. If the theory holds, the scarcity of PL coins may just due to attrition as the fine details wear easily. Many of them could be AG-VF coins by 2021.

I've posted a couple of mine already but I'll add them for discussion and because the angled photos are interesting for the PL characteristics.


1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
https://verdi.care/
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,687Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums