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1970 S Proof Small Date DDO-012

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 Posted 11/04/2021  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list
It looks like MD to me as well, particularly the bottom of the 7 and 0.
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 Posted 11/04/2021  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Machine Doubling on the second strike.
Note the Description:

Quote:
Description: Medium spread on LIBERTY with light spread on date and very light spread on TRUST.

Those and the mintmark location are the areas we need to see to tell if it is that die or not. To take an image to show the mintmark location and images that match the images on Variety Vista. Machine Doubling is not a doubled die. MD is a post striking event. A doubled die is on the die, not caused by a machine. But a doubled die can have MD. Machine Doubling can vary from strike to strike. A doubled die will make the spread look the same on the centers of the devices.
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 Posted 11/05/2021  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list
I was a little disappointed by the reception my coin received. I took more photos to try and convince the skeptics. To be clear - these photos are not of the same coin, I have 9 that I believe are all the same die. I selected a different one this time hoping that it will photograph better.
Additionally, I will reference to Wexler's
Here is the description:

Quote:
1970-S 1¢ Pr WDDO-035 "Best Of" Variety

Description: A strong spread towards the rim shows on LIBERTY. A closer spread shows on the date and very close doubling shows on IGWT.

Die Markers: Obverse: Small Date. The upper nose is flat from heavy abrading of the die. The mint mark is closer to the 9 and farther from the 7 than what is seen on WDDO-033. Reverse: None noted.

Submitted By: Albert B. Raddi

Cross References: CONECA: 15-O-II

The photos from that site.

1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012

Here is my coin:

1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
Wexler does not show the IGWT, but mentions a small spread. On the VV listing (which I believe is the same die) it does show the IGWT.
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
The date area:
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
And a closeup of the 7:
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
Lastly, the nose area:
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
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 Posted 11/05/2021  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Really nice clear images.
It looks like a nice DDO.
(It does seem a little odd the separation on the date is south on the MM as well.)
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 Posted 11/05/2021  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Here are side by sides of the mintmark locations of the two dies you suggested:
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
The V.V suggestion for the mintmark location was not even close. So that one is out. The Wexler listing seems very close. But the size differences of the devices seem to steer me away from this one. The extra large images of a single device remove any perspective of what really is going on with your coin. I prefer the Full image size of the devices on
1. IN GOD
2. D_WE_T
3. TRUST
4. Liberty
5. Date and mintmark area.
Single device images are a desperate attempt to show something, but the context is removed on single devices. The sites like to break up the devices. I put them back together again to see how strong they really are. Keep in mind that Machine Doubling affects the proof coin more as the are struck twice. IF MD happens on the first strike, the second strike flattens that and adds more MD most times. So like on the Variety Vista shot you can see flat field doubling on that image and others on that site.
http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...0SDDO012.htm
Mostly seen on the date area images of this site.
While the coin looks promising, I've not yet determined which die it is yet. It may even be a new die? But mintmark locations come first. Then spread on the devices next.

I just noticed the cross over Wexler suggested, DDO-015 is a large date and not a proof?

Just realized your coin is a large date. Now got to go back and check again for a match.
Edited by coop
11/05/2021 8:37 pm
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 Posted 11/05/2021  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list
I agree with coops findings. Why are full image photos unavailable? They would help a great deal!
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 Posted 11/05/2021  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list

Quote:
Just realized your coin is a large date. Now got to go back and check again for a match.

I really don't think so.

Quote:
Why are full image photos unavailable?

I'll take some. I set up to take microscope shots. not regular shots.
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 Posted 11/05/2021  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list
A few full sized photos can show us more than a ton of small ones.
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 Posted 11/05/2021  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HGK3 to your friends list
Can we revisit the Large Date/Small Date issue?


1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012

Of the three primary criteria for making the small date determination the OP's coin appear to have them all:

1. chiseled end of the 9 rather than blunt end
2. end of the nine points more towards the center of the 7
3. the top of the 7 and the top of the 1 and 9 are at the same level (whereas in the Large Date the 7 is lower)

The OP's coin also matches the two examples shown, both of which are designated as small date coins.

What am I missing?

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 Posted 11/05/2021  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
1970-S-Proof-Small-Date-DDO-012
Before assuming anything, I like to check out the first time. There is a small amount of space above the '7' on the small date, but more space above the large dates. Also note on the corner of the '7' there is a crease on the large dates. So it does appear to be a small date. (I was going by the drop space above the top of the '7'. I checked it because of the possible differences of the proof and business strike coins)
Edited by coop
11/05/2021 8:30 pm
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 Posted 11/05/2021  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list
It's a small date and a DDO. Very nice find, send it to one of the attributors.
-makecents-
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 Posted 11/06/2021  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
The mint mark was added after the die was made.The MM shows doubling (MD) just like the 9 & 7 in pic #8. So, is it a doubled die?
John1
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 Posted 11/06/2021  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list
Congrats. I concur that it is a DDO with md.

A bit of overkill on the pics but they are proof [no pun intended].

Hard to tell if it is #12 [exactly] -- At that magnification you can probably find more DDs.
Edited by CentSation
11/06/2021 12:05 pm
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 Posted 11/06/2021  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Well I've learned some new things about this year. I seen two different listings for the 1970-S Small dates. They were showing a FS-1401 and FS-1402. No explanations for these. So they must be the sub departments for the small dates? Nothing found on that term yet. I know the 1909 VDB/no VDB had a sub division used two sets of year varieties. So that must be what those numbers are for? (I guess it must be a secret?)
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