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 Replies: 22 / Views: 1,792 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
984 Posts |
Quote:
Sadly I think you wasted lots of money. I have slabbed a few cents and only 1 came in @ MS67, every other was MS68-69 and I thought I wasted money but you made me feel better. I probably wasted money no doubt. My submissions will slow down as I learn what is really good. I just get excited when I see a coin that I think is really good. a lot of 60's and 70's Lincolns in ms-67 are not pocket change. You for one have saved me money by drilling it in my head about color and alterations. Those coins from now on will be purchased already slabbed. Who knows I might find that ms-68 coin from the 60's or 70's where none are recorded yet? Raw older coins are very rare I think. So on to the next three boxes of 60's and seventies. Appreciate your advice and help. |
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Valued Member
United States
191 Posts |
If you're enjoying the experience, keep on doing what you like. What gives any of us the right to tell you how to spend your money?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5839 Posts |
@grospoisson,
Hopefully you make better progress on your next submissions, but understand photos uploaded here is as good as what you provided, it can't represent the actual coin itself. Perhaps go to local shows and coin shops and buy some already graded coins for references.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
984 Posts |
Quote:
Hopefully you make better progress on your next submissions, but understand photos uploaded here is as good as what you provided, it can't represent the actual coin itself. Perhaps go to local shows and coin shops and buy some already graded coins for references. Advice well received. Unfortunately no one on the forum seems to believe me when I say there is one LCD within a 60 mile radius of my house and he doesn't want to fool with Lincolns. There were two shows within a 3 hour driving distance last year. On show had 15 tables with 3 having a few Lincolns as side shows and one with 25 tables and 4 with a few Lincolns. The photos I provide are not presented to deceive anyone or hide flaws , in fact just the opposite. It would be counterproductive to try and deceive. Members have been helpful in providing flaws I didn't consider. I will use these submission results as tools. In fact with better equipment I have been able to spot why these coins were ms-66. Equipment I did not have when I submitted these coins. I was shooting for at least ms-66 but now I want better. I am spending money to learn I guess. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7648 Posts |
Quote:
I am spending money to learn I guess. That's why I call it tuition! Doesn't matter if you spend it at the grading company, coin show/shop or at the college admissions office ——- as long as you learn something from it it is your money to spend! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
If you find it exciting that's all that counts! I know people that blow as much on scratch tickets, what do they have after spending all that money? zilch....at least you have something tangible.
Good luck with continuing your quest!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
We all lust, just differently.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10048 Posts |
Don't expect solid and verifiable results from a business that outright claims what they do is subjective. The companies themselves call coin grading an art! The grade assigned a coin can easily change if that coin is broken out and resubmitted even to the same company.
People in our modern and scientific society just assume grading companies use verifiable scientific standards. But the companies do nothing verifiable. This fact keeps the profitable re-slabbing game alive for the companies.
What about the PCGS guarantee? Study it with an open mind. Very careful wording is used to basically say two things:
1. They will make it good if they slab a fake coin as being real - this is legit.
2. If you think the grade they assigned was too high and don't want that high of a grade (think about that one for a minute...)
a. They will downgrade the coin for you, or
b. They will buy the coin from you for what they call "market value..."
...wait for the next shoe...
Further in the guarantee's text PCGS defines "market value" to be PCGS's own discretion on what they think a dealer would pay for the coin - not actual market value the way collectors' typically think of it when that term is used.
In other words you would be better off selling that slab you question (would you really question it?) on the market yourself instead of accepting their offer.
BTW... the last scenario of selling the coin to PCGS also means PCGS could make even more profit by selling the slab you returned at the higher price suggested by the slab the coin is currently in. No evidence says whether PCGS does this or not.
Since it was only the former owner's opinion the grade was to high, does PCGS go against their own graders' judgement, break the coin out, downgrade and re-slab it, and then sell the slab for less than they could have? We don't know.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
984 Posts |
Quote:
on't expect solid and verifiable results from a business that outright claims what they do is subjective. The companies themselves call coin grading an art! The grade assigned a coin can easily change if that coin is broken out and resubmitted even to the same company.
People in our modern and scientific society just assume grading companies use verifiable scientific standards. But the companies do nothing verifiable. This fact keeps the profitable re-slabbing game alive for the companies.
What about the PCGS guarantee? Study it with an open mind. Very careful wording is used to basically say two things:
1. They will make it good if they slab a fake coin as being real - this is legit.
2. If you think the grade they assigned was too high and don't want that high of a grade (think about that one for a minute...)
a. They will downgrade the coin for you, or
b. They will buy the coin from you for what they call "market value..."
...wait for the next shoe...
Further in the guarantee's text PCGS defines "market value" to be PCGS's own discretion on what they think a dealer would pay for the coin - not actual market value the way collectors' typically think of it when that term is used.
In other words you would be better off selling that slab you question (would you really question it?) on the market yourself instead of accepting their offer.
BTW... the last scenario of selling the coin to PCGS also means PCGS could make even more profit by selling the slab you returned at the higher price suggested by the slab the coin is currently in. No evidence says whether PCGS does this or not.
Since it was only the former owner's opinion the grade was to high, does PCGS go against their own graders' judgement, break the coin out, downgrade and re-slab it, and then sell the slab for less than they could have? We don't know.
Ho I am so new to this that I haven't broached the subject for fear of being laughed at(I guess) . I also have other curious questions. Right now, I am playing by their rules. Ms-67 seems to be the magic number for most coins value wise. I am enjoying it and many members are helping me along. When I become more experienced, I will revisit the subject. Everything you posted. When I read the statments from PCGS that you posted , I had those exact thoughts. Right now I am trying to learn as much as I can about grading and it's costing me but I feel I am coming along. On my lower graded coins, I am finding my mistakes so that's a plus. Any way you slice it the submission game is usually a losing game. I just like to play. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Like Don Quixote, you pursue a goal unseen to most of us.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5803 Posts |
Congrats on your submission and the grades.
That 1974S MS67 almost paid for the whole group. I'd say you are way ahead if for no other reason than the enjoyment it brings you.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
522 Posts |
Stick with what you enjoy. I love Lincolns. I also have a perspective. I have the good fortune of working with a reputable rare coin dealer. He has a lot coins. He has shown me coins that demonstrate what is a 65, 66, 67...in Morgans, Nickels, Cents, etc. This has helped my roll hunting. You can get good if you see coins of a grade you want in person. Important thing when I send coins is a great light source (I use a 100W incandescent bulb), a 7x to 10X loupe--my current favorite is a german one--its expensive as hell, but it has saved me from buying coins with blemishes. Then I take a photo with my I phone, nicks you may have missed will show up. See them and you know the coin is 66 tops--the room for nicks, poor strikes, and white spots to be forgiven is small. If you have the money, buy UNC rolls from a reputable seller.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
984 Posts |
Quote:
You can get good if you see coins of a grade you want in person. Important thing when I send coins is a great light source (I use a 100W incandescent bulb), a 7x to 10X loupe--my current favorite is a german one--its expensive as hell, but it has saved me from buying coins with blemishes. Then I take a photo with my I phone, nicks you may have missed will show up. See them and you know the coin is 66 tops--the room for nicks, poor strikes, and white spots to be forgiven is small. If you have the money, buy UNC rolls from a reputable seller. My most recent approach has eliminated all but a handful of coins out of the thousands I look through
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of 2 Really really good sound advice. I have settled on a German made coinscope. I really see things I miss with loupe. I have learned that the scope also misses a lot of things, thats where a loupe comes in handy( not as powerful). After that I now take a picture with camera. Each has it's advantages and downfalls. Of course, I look with the naked eye for luster. I then try to find mistakes I missed with each device and look to see what it looks like with each device. Sometimes a camera nick is not a nick at all but the angle and I think's that's true of each device I use. Lighting and angle really matter. One of my biggest issues right now is determining PMD and actual marks from dies. This takes a bit of time. It also makes me wonder how a grader can determine all that in the 30 seconds he looks at a coin. PCGS photos from their website cause me more confusion then actual help. For any of you that have played the submission game or currently playing the game please weigh in on whether my approach seems about right?. Forum members have offered much appreciated help but sometimes I need to hear it again and again. I pray my helpful members continue to weigh in. Like Shrek, I am on a quest. Expensive or not I am enjoying the journey. You can't put a price on the excitement and rush I feel when I think I have found a good coin. Last thing I am purchasing rolls from someone reputable and not ebay. Most rolls have not seen the light of day since they were wrapped. I really appreciated your input. Thanks. Edited by grospoisson
02/05/2022 08:11 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10048 Posts |
Quote:
Any way you slice it the submission game is usually a losing game. I just like to play. And that is what a hobby is all about - enjoyment!  How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19976 Posts |
Quote:
I have the good fortune of working with a reputable rare coin dealer. CONGRATS! I too have had a LCS mentor - been about 10 years now. However, he hates memorial cents, usually just has rolls or slabbed varieties. Typical for us memorial freaks.  |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 1,792 |
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Posted 02/04/2022 2:58 pm
