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Bedrock of the Community
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94367 Posts |
Dr. coop knows his stuff.  |
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Moderator
 United States
96936 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
I'm going to go with the die cap/tapered planchet over the post strike planchet split.
I don't see any of the striations normally found on a split planchet on the obverse of this coin.
The inconsistent obverse rim seems more in line with a die cap as well. Every split planchet I've seen splits through the rims but the obverse of this coin shows rims almost fully formed on part of it.
However, I will admit that the well struck reverse leaves me slightly puzzled as a tapered planchet usually results in at least some areas of strike weakness. Perhaps the taper wasn't great enough to affect the strike?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
The striation lines would be from a rolled on scrap metal that was uneven in surface thickness. If the rolled on stock would be even thickness, it would not create the striation lines. It would be adhered to the stock hot rolled stock, but being cool, could fall of at anytime later after the strike.The thickness would have been on the 10:00 thickness of the edge of the coin. Thus when it came apart, it broke off that location of the planchet.  Similar to this coin, but attached on the outer edge instead of the center.  Like a loose clad. Note the edge of the coin? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
So you're saying some scrap metal got rolled onto the stock while it was hot and then after striking it fell off, leaving a smooth surface? Do you have any photos of coins where that has happened? Quote:
If the rolled on stock would be even thickness, it would not create the striation lines. Since the OP says the planchet is thinner on one side, and since one side of the obverse shows some devices but not the other I don't see how we can support the assumption that the rolled on scrap metal was even thus leaving no striation lines. |
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Valued Member
 United States
172 Posts |
Thanks for the lively debate. I always find conversations like this helpful for better understanding how errors like this can potentially occur. One thing I probably should have specified is in the original pictures I posted the coin in question is on the left when I was doing the rim comparisons. So the first rim picture is a comparison of the thick edge of the coin in question (left) to another Wheat penny (right). The second picture still has the coin in question on the left and it compares the thinner rim to another Wheat penny on the right. Let me know if there are other pictures I can provide that would be helpful. Thanks again! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
I think the OP's original reconstruction of events is correct. This cent was struck through an early-stage uniface die cap. The planchet was either tapered or derived from rolled-thin stock.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
Hey Everyone,
I wanted to post an update on this coin. I had heard ANACS was pretty good regarding error attribution so I gave them the coin to review. I noted that the coin was likely on a tapered planchet. The coin came back with the following attribution:
1937 1C Struck Through Late Stage Capped Die
AU 58
There was absolutely no mention of a tapered planchet or the low weight. In the same group of coins I sent off another one that had a straight clip on a tapered planchet and that one was attributed as a straight clip and instead of attributing it as a tapered planchet (which I've seen done on their labels) it simply listed the weight as 2.6 grams. I find it odd that the 1937 coin would be confirmed as struck through a die cap but have the 2.71g weight ignored.
If this is indeed a tapered planchet struck through a die cap those combination of events seem exceedingly rare and I'd love to get it attributed as such. Any recommendations? My next thought would be to send it to NGC but I'd hate to spend the money if it won't get attributed with both events.
Thanks!
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5780 Posts |
Nice find.
(Missed another one the first time around.)
ANACS may have gotten it wrong on the label, especially if you put the wording in your description on their form.
I would contact them, explain the missing info from the label, and ask them to correct it. You might even provide the link to this thread where Mike confirms your initial attribution.
At the very least they should have included the weight on the label.
As to the discussion in the thread, IMHO, the reason the reverse rims struck up so nicely for a tapered planchet was simply that the die cap provided the additional volume of metal for the reverse rims and probably overlapped the obverse rim, flattening it out.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
Thanks for the recommendation I really appreciate it! I definitely made sure to mention both the struck through die cap and the tapered planchet on the form when I submitted it. I'll take your advice and give them a call. Out of the 7 coins I submitted in the batch I believe at least 3 were mislabeled and possibly up to 5 of them were mislabeled. The actual grades didn't matter to me since all 7 coins were sent for the main purpose of error attribution. I'll likely post a few of the other coins to the forum to get some additional community input before making the call to ANACS.
Thanks again!
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
I called ANACS and they were incredibly nice and offered to take a 2nd look at the coins. Really superb customer service. I'll post an update with the final results.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5780 Posts |
I called ANACS and they were incredibly nice and offered to take a 2nd look at the coins. Really superb customer service. I'll post an update with the final results.
Really good to hear. Hopefully, they re-evaluate and correct the label.
Just curious but did you happen to mention this thread and Mike's assesment?
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
Yes I definitely referenced both the thread and Mike's analysis. I even made sure to provide a direct link to the thread. That said, I do have another update about this coin. I have to say, this has been a true rollercoaster of an experience. I'm going to walk through the timeline of what has occurred since my last post: 1. ANACS QA dept. takes another look at the coin. They do change their assessment of the coin but shockingly it's changed from struck through a capped die to "damaged ground down"
2. The coin arrives at my LCS and the shop owner who has 30+ years of experience and who worked at Heritage for over a decade says the coin definitely isn't ground down. He offers to speak with ANACS and provide his assessment.
3. ANACS reviews the coin for a 3rd time and sticks to their 2nd assessment of the coin being ground down. ANACS calls me with the results but says the coin is interesting and that they're open to continuing the discussion. ANACS refers me over to Jon Sullivan of Sullivan Numismatics to get another opinion on the coin.
4. Jon reviews the images from this thread and agrees with ANACS stating he is 99.99% sure that the coin is just damaged and that it was buffed down. So that's where things currently stand. Jon Sullivan and ANACS say the coin is simply PMD while Mike Diamond, the LCS industry expert, and others in this thread say it's a legitimate mint error. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure where to go from here. I will certainly be holding onto the coin but I'm not sure if I should try to get additional input from other industry experts or if I've simply hit a bit of a brick wall and I should accept the PMD explanation. I know I have farrr less experience than Jon and the team at ANACS but I'm just struggling to see the signs of PMD. Thoughts? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2558 Posts |
Imo this coin does look odd especially in the western field (really flat). That being said there is more than one kind of capped die strike. I'm not counting yours out but if I were you I would look closely at the coin and try to see what they saw. Could your coin be slightly out of round? Underweight? Bent? Micro hairlines?
Edited by Willburton
09/15/2022 8:46 pm
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Posted 04/07/2022 1:42 pm
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
