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1893-S Morgan Silver Dollar - Real 1893 But The S Is Added.

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 Posted 11/16/2022  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Is it too late to return it to who you purchsed it from?
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
Check if there's any sign of a repaired hole in the rim near the S. Some fakers drill a hole and raise a mint mark from the inside. If that's the case, you'd have to buff it off.
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Msjudochop to your friends list
Fortunately, I am not out any money with this coin. It was a part of my grandfathers collection I inherited.

When you mention the diagnostic die mark is that for a 1893-P? I know the die mark for the 1893-S is not there. That was one of the first things my local coin dealer checked.


1893-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar---Real-1893-But-The-S-Is-Added.
Edited by Msjudochop
11/16/2022 11:44 pm
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 Posted 11/17/2022  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Msjudochop to your friends list
The solvent worked but not without a little scrapping. Unfortunately, it left the area of the mm pretty scratched up. Perhaps someone will still be interested in purchasing it. after inspecting the rest of the coin more thoroughly I did notice that it has doubling on the right stars. VAM world labels it as a VAM 4. I guess that would be worth noting to assure that it is indeed an 1893-P. It's just had a rough life lol.


1893-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar---Real-1893-But-The-S-Is-Added.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  06:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list
Thats a reasonable result to remove the fake mint mark.

I suggest when you offer this for sale that you tell the entire story up front so there are no surprises to the buyer. Keeps you looking honest when the mint mark location comes into question. Best of wishes on the sale.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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 Posted 11/17/2022  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
Did the S come off intact?
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 Posted 11/17/2022  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list

Quote:
Did the S come off intact?



Quote:
The solvent worked but not without a little scrapping. Unfortunately, it left the area of the mm pretty scratched up.

I'm assuming the solvent worked but how did you get so much damage to the MM area ?
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 Posted 11/17/2022  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Msjudochop to your friends list

Quote:
I'm assuming the solvent worked but how did you get so much damage to the MM area ?


Well, the only real tool I had available was an xacto knife. It took a bit of scrapping to dislodge the S and it seemed to have an area around the mm that was added. like a flat base. I'm assuming to match the coins surface and help the mm stick. I'm also thinking they "textured" the original surface to help form the bond.

Anyway, now I'm starting to question the date. I would hate to sell this and have that be altered as well. Should I soak the date in acetone? Does the 1893-P have any identifying die markers to help authenticate it being a true 1893-P?
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 Posted 11/17/2022  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jerry Picker to your friends list
I think everyone in this forum would have told you not to use an Exacto. I wouldn't mess with it anymore.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Msjudochop to your friends list
Yeeeaaah I probably shouldn't have gone straight for the knife. Kinda wishing I could take that one back. Oh well. I did spend some time researching the dies of the 1893-P and am 100% sure it is a VAM 4. So I guess the best thing to
Do would be to send it into anac to get it authenticated. I feel it's going to be a tough coin to sell with the shady history and mm area damage.
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 Posted 11/17/2022  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ericgreen to your friends list
It will probably come back AU Details - Tooled and Cleaned. Still worth getting certified for resale value. AU-50 straight is around an $800 coin. So my guess is this could sell for $300-$400
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 Posted 11/17/2022  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list

Quote:
the only real tool I had available was an xacto knife


holy crap-oli!
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 Posted 11/17/2022  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list
Look how the S was added on this one....

http://goccf.com/t/382123
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 Posted 11/17/2022  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list
I don't think the knife did much damage, even though it was not the best tool for the job. Similar to what the OP said, I think the underlying surface was previously altered and roughed up to make the mintmark adhere to the surface better.
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 Posted 11/18/2022  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list
Thanks for the article Bobby- I was wondering how a fake mm might be added or even created.

As someone who was involved with fraud investigations for over 30 years, it peaks my interest. I would be interested in reading more as it relates to coin if anyone has more information.

Taking that info one step further, what type of tool could be inserted into the small hole and how could it raise the precise metal to create a mm?

I know, more questions than answers. I don't know a successful counterfeiter to ask.
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