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1819 Capped Bust Quarter - Grade Request

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/11/2022  12:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I want to know if this coin would be a details one.

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 Posted 11/11/2022  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is my main concern.
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 Posted 11/11/2022  01:12 am  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say F-12 straight. I think that small gouge is acceptable for the grade.
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 Posted 11/11/2022  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Imho this is an F details coin. The large dark areas under liberty's ear appear corroded.

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 Posted 11/11/2022  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
really tough to judge that area under the hair. the original photo is too small and the blow up is too out of focus to determine if it is in fact corrosion. in-hand observation may be the best shot at figuring it out.

F details without better photos of that area. if it flat and on the surface and not imbedding into the the coin it could grade straight. if you cant tell be eye try running a toothpick along its edges lightly to see if its raised or incused.
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 Posted 11/12/2022  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
F-12 details.
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 Posted 11/12/2022  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree, F details (ED). Haven't we seen this one before?
Edited by Coinfrog
11/12/2022 09:35 am
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 Posted 11/12/2022  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VG-10 straight for me, lovely coin. Not too many large diameter low denomination bust coinage seen here.
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 Posted 11/12/2022  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The large black spot under the ear would probably keep it from straight grading.
ANA #R3154474
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 Posted 11/13/2022  05:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am going to show the steps followed to achieve the final results that hopefully will allow a better grade.

I used something called the "polarity ladder", which starts with applying deionized water to the substrate and allowing it to soak long enough to loosen any foreign matter not bonded to the patina. In this case it only took 10 minutes for this part of the process.

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 Posted 11/13/2022  06:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like to use a porcupine quill since it will not damage the patina unless excessive pressure exists. It will penetrate into those nooks and crannies to better expose the devices. They leave rose thorns and toothpicks in the dust.

It's imperative to warn the viewers that the tip is like a pin but with barbs surrounding the black part. And similar to a fishhook pulling it out of the skin causes much pain and will rip out a pretty good chunk of skin. This can be avoided by pulling the quill all the way through which is a stupid thing to say but conceptually this will alleviate any further pain. Another more practical method is to spray some of that instant freeze on the affected area and rotate the quill until It releases.
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 Posted 11/13/2022  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I included a couple methods to use the quill: picking up the native quill by itself or handling it while inside of a pen which is more precise since it stabilizes the tip from moving around.




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 Posted 11/13/2022  06:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Incidentally, when I ran the quill over the area it seemed very smooth, obviously except for the surfaces with the devices.

For those unfamiliar with the polarity ladder there are several references to it in CCF. The second step is to apply a solvent that exhibits both polar and nonpolar characteristics; one such generic product is acetone. Although unnecessary in this case, lab grade acetone will not leave any pieces of residue resulting from lax quality control. These particles surface in nail polish remover, for example etc.




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 Posted 11/13/2022  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to summarize this polarity ladder theme by stating that the last step is to apply a non-polar solvent such as trichloroethane (aka trike) or xylene (xylol), for example. Please remember, however, that these solvents are extremely toxic and will damage the nervous system if inadequate ventilation exists. A Covid mask won't cut the mustard.

I would like to get some feedback insofar as the need to apply either acetone or any of the aforementioned non-polar solvents in an attempt to remove the remaining dark gray color. Although I am not worried about these solvents damaging the coins, I would like to get some opinions regarding the need to blend in the affected area to better match its adjacent sections. Would that help the grade any in this case?

Although this is not the cleaning section of CCF, getting into the details of how I obtained the final results is germane to this topic. Finally, non-polar solvents can often remove some types of PVC residues, tar or other similar oil-based products. If I think I know what is stuck on a coin, I just research it to determine if it would float on water. This would be indicative of something that trike would probably remove.
Edited by mdpmedia
11/13/2022 07:31 am
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 Posted 11/13/2022  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
based on the last blowup of the area after your working on it I dont think the coin is PMD. the question still remains if the coin passes straight or not
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 Posted 11/13/2022  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the detailed write-up. Your results look promising but ED is there with tiny pits/corrosion. It is unlikely to pass with a straight grade at a top TPG but you never know unless you try. It's a nice piece regardless and I'd leave it as-is (raw).
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