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 Replies: 37 / Views: 2,261 |
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Moderator
 United States
97575 Posts |
Quote:Machinery breaks down, gets worn, has a life, as do dies, which is a part of the "machine". That is where you get, what I consider, die events, die cracks, chips, Cuds, deterioration, shattered dies, many things So the Hammer die mechanically struck the reeded collar - That is why I call it a die event and not an error. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8787 Posts |
Quote:
So the Hammer die mechanically struck the reeded collar - That is why I call it a die event and not an error. I guess my question, is the misaligned die, a mechanical or human "error"? -makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Quote:
I think An error and a die event are interchangeable. An error is a die event By definition ERROR is a result of the outside intervention (here the human) as not been part of the machinery. DIE EVENT it is a result of the normal process without any exterior intervention. MAKE: The Miss align Die it is Human error. |
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Moderator
United States
97575 Posts |
Quote:
I guess my question, is the misaligned die, a mechanical or human "error"? Is it possible that maybe the dies were initially set up correctly, but with all the striking, the alignment fell out of place? (vibrations and all) |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2253 Posts |
Quote:
Is it possible that maybe the dies were initially set up correctly Apparently not, if they moved out of position. An error creates a die event and a die event creates an error on the planchet. Kind of wish Mike would reply to this thread to see what his take is on the subject. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Quote:
Is it possible that maybe the dies were initially set up correctly, but with all the striking, the alignment fell out of place? IMHO NO. The Die alignment by tolerances could be +/- 2 Deg. Over will be miss alignment but not collectable if not 5 Deg and plus. If the Die start to be loose during the strike will fall in the category of the Strike Doubling, Machine Doubling and Mechanical Doubling. 3 terms which mean almost same for collecting and I do not know a consensus for this. Is not collectable so nobody today will start a new debate for. |
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Moderator
United States
97575 Posts |
Quote:
Kind of wish Mike would reply to this thread to see what his take is on the subject. So why don't we ask him? I think I'll send an email to him and see if he wishes to comment on this conversation. EDIT: Ok, I hope Mike will have an input on this subject. Time for some popcorn while we wait.  Edited by Dearborn
01/19/2023 3:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Good point on this. I think him already if I recall well has at one point an exchange with Ken? Stanton? and others.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
I was asked to weigh in on this semantic tussle. I have never heard the term "die event". Considered in isolation, this term is meaningless. I consider collar clash a form of die error. I do NOT consider it a die variety, although other hobby poobahs do. I consider a die variety to include the traditional categories -- repunched mintmarks, overmintmarks, repunched dates, retouched dies, etc. I consider damage (like collar clash) and spontaneous failure (like Cuds) to be die errors. Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
01/19/2023 4:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Thank you Mike for your explanation, almost for the expression : this semantic tussle which in my opinion describe at the most high level this topic.
Appreciate
PS: I like also the approach on DIE EVENT because EVENT mean once. Maybe we can change with Strike EVENT. IMHO an example it is STRUCK trough an WIRE. Is happened once not twice. Nice expressions.
Example: When I gives an conference on one subject was an event, if I choice same topic for another conference will be other event. Event mean also an action so STRIKE EVENT could be employ in same cases.
Edited by silviosi
01/19/2023 5:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2253 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
97575 Posts |
Thanks Mike for your appraisal on this. Die Error it is.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8787 Posts |
Thank you, Mike and everyone else, for the great info! This was a good discussion and made me think about more than what my toddy of choice would be, this evening.  -makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8787 Posts |
I wanted to thank the OP for their input and patience too, did not mean to make a mess of your thread.
-makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2253 Posts |
Nothing better than a good debate and happy to have a collar clash error in my collection. Thanks for the participation of all.
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Posted 01/18/2023 9:09 pm
