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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1465 Posts |
That is really cool! Thanks for sharing!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
363 Posts |
Great research and history...well done as always Exoguy
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Moderator
 United States
34418 Posts |
Great work chasing this one down @exo. Based on the timing of his business and the date on this coin, I'm thinking that this cent was well-circulated prior to the stamp. As a likely pocket piece, there doesn't seem to be much wear post-stamping. Is that how you see it?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Excellent research ExoGuy, as usual and interesting back history as well, glad you were able to put it all together and acquire the counterstamped coin for your collection.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4416 Posts |
Quote: As a likely pocket piece, there doesn't seem to be much wear post-stamping. Is that how you see it? Yes, Spence, that's my guess. Despite a solid attribution, where counterstamps are concerned, there's inevitably some degree of speculation to be made. These pieces do tend to spur one's imagination about the issuer and his motivations. There's another interesting backstory about Lysander. At the time, Idaho was simply-put, a largely unsettled territory. During one of his longer frontier excursions, a man reported that Lysander and his companion had been killed by warring Indians. Much to the dismay of Lysander's family and friends, this news was published back home. Needless to say, they were surprised and over-joyed when Lysander returned home some weeks later. There was no indication later provided as to why the source created this "fake" news. (Note that I attempted to post the news articles, but the files were too large.) Thanks to all for the kindly replies! The gunsmith c/s's seem to be the most popular, so I thought I'd use one for my first post of the New Year. Hopefully, I can pick up the pace a bit this year. 
Edited by ExoGuy 01/01/2024 8:34 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
25291 Posts |
Fantastic work, ExoGuy!
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
He sure got around! A quick search shows he was also mayor of Council Bluffs IA 1859-1861. He seems to have been editor of the Council Bluffs Bugle in 1870, and had previously owned the newspaper some years prior. Lots of political involvement, as you said. An L.W.Babbitt was a charter member of the Caledonia Masonic Lodge in New Albany OH in 1868, but perhaps that was a different person, as he appears to have been well-entrenched in Iowa by then.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74355 Posts |
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. 
Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11896 Posts |
Some days it feels like you are single-handedly elevating this market. Hope it catches on. Happy new year. 
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4416 Posts |
Quote: An L.W. Babbitt was a charter member of the Caledonia Masonic Lodge in New Albany OH in 1868 ... Possibly, his was a namesake, given to and from an admiring relative? It seems that this was a fairly common practice back then. Quote: Some days it feels like you are single-handedly elevating this market. Hope it catches on. I'm doing my part, but it's a relatively small one. I've long been in touch with five other c/s collectors who are doing their part as well. Catching on, it is. Auction results seem to be influencing the c/s market more than anything. The prices realized for this material has risen sharply in the past twenty years; this, as auction house archives attest. Heritage and Stacks are the chief influencers. I'd liken the rise of interest in c/s's to that of Civil War tokens. Back in the 1970's to early 80's, the most common tokens sold for $3-$5, apiece. Presently, they're selling in the $17-$20 range. Both the CW tokens and the c/s's are largely valued for their history and scarcity of better issues.
Edited by ExoGuy 01/02/2024 2:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote: Possibly, his was a namesake, given to and from an admiring relative? It seems that this was a fairly common practice back then. There were a lot of Babbitt's and one even owned the Council Bluffs Bugle before Lysander who apparently was not related. https://iagenweb.org/pottawattamie/...chapter5.htm "The senior member of this firm was Hon. L. W. Babbitt, but no relation to A. W. Babbitt, the first editor." My own family history is filled with the "common practices" you allude to - parents naming their kids using their friend's names, those friends doing the same, and then those friend's kids marrying each other and doing the same, and it all gets very confusing. The Ohio connection with the Masonic temple Babbitt I thought might be connected, but you're right, probably a different Babbitt family and no indication of what L stood for. Not sure if you've seen this, but his findagrave info has an image of his obituary, which might fill in a few pieces of the timeline. If you follow the tree, his grandson was also named Lysander. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial...kins-babbitt I wonder why he moved to Arkansas? His wife, daughter, and grandson were all buried in Pottawattamie County, Iowa. (Other grandchildren elsewhere) I got interested in this mainly because my grandfather was born in Council Bluffs in 1900.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4416 Posts |
THANKS, kbbpll !! There's lots of additional info in the second obit. I often check the Find-a-Grave website but didn't do that in this case. I obviously need to make it more of a habit. On occasion, I've posted pics of a subject's c/s and/or other info on that website. I also keep paper files to eventually accompany a c/s when it moves on to the next owner. As such, I've printed out copies of Lysander's obits. Help is ALWAYS appreciated !! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Don't trust all the genealogy info on there. I've found mistakes and omissions. It's certainly useful for additional clues though.
Question - do you think this c/s was deliberate or was he just testing his punch? I note how it's not aligned with the portrait and it seems like as a promotion or store card they'd take more care with the aesthetics. But I don't know this subject matter and perhaps it was common to just stamp them willy-nilly.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4416 Posts |
Quote: Question - do you think this c/s was deliberate or was he just testing his punch? My thought is both, perhaps. I've seen many c/s's that were punched on the bias, so to speak. This effect results in the stamp being more prominent and conspicuously not part of the design. Also, note that this stamp is large, compared to many. Oftentimes, those applying small stamps tended to more carefully place them in a field or else incorporate/align the mark with the coin's design; this, a more artful approach, if you will. Lysander's history tells us that he was a social sort of guy, As a mason and/or lodge member, he might well have pulled this coin from a pocket, like a calling card, as a means of introduction with a stranger. He could the follow-up with, "I apply this name stamp to rifles I make." Personally stamped coins were typically carried by masons and odd-fellows back then. Another aspect to consider is that these were the old days, prior to folks carrying credit cards and driving licenses. During the Civil War, many soldiers carried a stamped medal, bearing their name, rank, regiment, etc. These would help identify their remains, if need be. More commonly though, a soldier's name was applied to his clothing. Identification was even somewhat important back then. As an aside, these Civil War identification medals, typically made by diesinkers and stamped by sutlers, currently fetch between $1,500 and $3,000, apiece.
Edited by ExoGuy 01/02/2024 7:46 pm
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