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 Replies: 21 / Views: 4,128 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
In about 10 minutes PCGS is going to announce their web servers were overwhelmed with traffic and had to be rebooted.  |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
Apparently its just a "plus" attribute if its more that half way between grades or something like that... big letdown.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Wow, they are eliminating the ability to crack out and resubmit a PCGS coin. Digital fingerprint of every coin, so if it is resubmitted, they will know it.
Counterfeiters will eventually be able to counterfeit the new slabs. They still haven't addressed the need for someone (besides PCGS) to be able to determine if the coin inside the slab is really the right coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
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Digital fingerprint of every coin, so if it is resubmitted, they will know it.
All to easily fooled. Just take the coin in question place in bag with a few cents and give it a shake or two. It may cut it a grade or so, finger print will be permanently changed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
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Just take the coin in question place in bag with a few cents and give it a shake or two. It may cut it a grade or so, finger print will be permanently changed. Someone cracks a borderline coin trying to get a better grade, not worse. Maybe you are suggesting they would then try to other doctoring to improve the coin beyond it's original grade. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Wow. Master stroke. I gotta hand it to them, even though I don't like the company.
They've sacrificed the crackout business, true, but look at the gain:
-A new, "more secure" service which will drag business from the competition because of perceived security.
-No more bad public relations from downgrading crackouts, or secret snickers from upgrading dogs.
-A "great for the grade" designation which pretty much makes CAC useless for new submissions.
-The beginning of the database which allows them to go to computerized grading down the road, when they have a large-enough sample. Same price, no more $250k graders.
Keep in mind, physically altering a coin by adding new marks will not change the original marks which form the "fingerprint." You can hide some of them, but not all (anyways, do you know what they're recording, when they can scan to micron resolution?). Just like fingerprints, it's possible to narrow the field down significantly just by matching a percentage of recorded marks, and there will be a (very early, I'm thinking) point in that analysis where it can only be one coin. All they're spending money on is harddrive space.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
One of the big pluses that everyone seems to be missing on the digital fingerprint is its ability to identify stolen coins that have been cracked in an attempt to disguise them. If they set it up right if your Secure Plus coins get stolen you should be able to send PCGS a list of the serial numbers and then if any of the coins ever get resubmitted, even if cracked out, the computer should be able to recognize the fingerprint and flag the coin as stolen. THAT'S the Secure part.
What gets me is all the hype over this and then what it turns out to be is basically the same thing they had 19 years ago with the Expert System. They just dropped the computer grading part and added half point grading.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Conder, theft has been discussed a little on other threads on this subject, including whether or not PCGS would be able to legally confiscate a coin believed to be stolen.
To me, the (remote) possibility of recovering a stolen coin is the only value added to the original submitter of a coin. Well, maybe the "plus" can add value, just a CAC label currently can.
Wonder if they will ever have a way for owners of a coin (after the original submitter) to register that they own the coin now. But that would open some other cans of worms.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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including whether or not PCGS would be able to legally confiscate a coin believed to be stolen I think they are fine legally, just look at the art world and the recovery of paintings and such taken from Jews by the Nazis. A modern owner may not have a clue as to the provenance of a particular painting but if it is verified as Nazi seizure art, ownership reverts to the rightful person or their heirs. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
what happens if someone actually sells a coin and then they decide they want it back and tell PCGS it was stolen? Will they get a call if their coin comes back in the door? What proof will PCGS want to prove there was a coin that had been stolen
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
PCGS won't "confiscate" anything. What they will do, now, is provide substantial evidence regarding a coin reported stolen to the police. It's reasonable to expect law enforcement to provide PCGS serial numbers reported stolen, especially if the owner knows the coin is protected and provides that information. Should such a coin turn up in PCGS' hands, they'd obviously contact the venue it was reported stolen from and hold it only until secure evidential transfer can be arranged. The technology to prove with near-100% surety that a given coin is the one you've previously scanned has existed for a decade or more.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
NGC is also now doing the plus system.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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Wonder if they will ever have a way for owners of a coin (after the original submitter) to register that they own the coin now. Registry sets. Quote:
including whether or not PCGS would be able to legally confiscate a coin believed to be stolen Quote:
What proof will PCGS want to prove there was a coin that had been stolen Answering the second quote first, a copy of the police report of the theft with the serial numbers listed. PCGS would notify the police dept from where the report was made and the police would handle the recovery. They would either direct PCGS to sieze the coin and send them to the police where the report was made or they may arrange for the local police to come pick up the stolen coins. Quote:
The technology to prove with near-100% surety that a given coin is the one you've previously scanned has existed for a decade or more. More, the digital fingerprinting for positive identification was a part of PCGS's Expert System back in 1991. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
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Registry sets. Well, I was talking about proving ownership, and PCGS holding on to coins after being notified by someone who CLAIMS to own a coin that they've been stolen. But you're comments on police reports covers that. |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
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A "great for the grade" designation which pretty much makes CAC useless for new submissions My thoughts exactly. I didn't care for CAC anyway. swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 21 / Views: 4,128 |
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First Page
Posted 03/25/2010 12:57 pm
