Older Notes

I would not say 'superior' knowledge Vic...I prefer to look at it as different things that we each have learned. I have very little doubt that you know many things about these notes that I do not. We could learn from each other. I assume that your forte' is Rama 9 notes. I will post some early series 9 notes later, and we can exchange information about them if you like.

Series 2 banknotes:














All backs carried the same (basic) design:

You ARE quite observant WD, and interesting questions call for interesting answers, which all tie together in the history of the Thai banknote & the Thai people.

The tical notes (series 1) were as you say, very plain and uniface. The vast majority of Thais during the first half of the 20th century were (through no fault of their own) illiterate. It was an easy thing for scoundrels alter notes with pencils and erasers, since the notes pretty much lacked in any vivid colors (there are color to the notes,but only very subtle ones).

Here is just how messed up the Tical notes of series 1 really were: the 1, 5, and 50 Tical notes were all the same size. The 10, 20, 100, and 1000 were all the same size. As for the subtle colors, the 1 and 50 were gray. The 5, 10 and 100 were brown. Varieties of the 5, 10 also came in green as did the 20. The 1000 was yellowish brown.

In order to remedy this, the King ordered from Thomas de La Rue in England an entirely new type of banknote.....different sizes and colors for each denomination so that all people could recognize them even if they were unable to read. This also would thwart counterfeiters. This is now known as series 2.






The series 2 notes that I posted earlier were the beginning of the color scheme of Thai banknotes according to denomination. Series 3 followed the colors of series 2, and series 4 followed series 3..... Blue for 1 baht, purple for 5 baht, brown for 10 baht, green for 20 baht, blue for 100 baht, and yellowish brown for 1000 baht.

Here are major designs of 1 Baht notes for you to compare color.









You will notice a brown 1 baht note in that last picture. This was printed during WWII by the Japanese government. The Japanese occupied Thailand during this time, and chose their own color schemes for the countries that they occupied. So, there are exceptions to every rule. You will notice also exceptions with certain WWII notes of other denominations if I am able to upload some.


Here are some 5 baht notes for color comparison:









10 baht:







20 baht












50 baht:







100 baht:









500 baht:





1000 baht:










I am sure that you know that Thailand is big on commemorative notes, there are many, some are very big and fancy.

I think that I said before that I had Turkish notes, but that was in error, I had said Turkey when I mean Ottoman.

As far as the Chinese empire notes go, I am only 5'2" and weigh 97 lbs. The Chinese notes are in about 10 or 12 albums that probably total in weight more than I do. If you could tell me what you are looking for, I will look for specific ones. (I am familiar with Pick #s). They are all in safety deposit boxes, and I will hunt for them when I take these Thai notes back. I only have three albums of them, but it is still quite a chore.

I am looking forward to getting out the Belgian Congo album. I recall there being some huge notes with elephants, leopards, sterotypical natives, etc that would fit in with a recent zoo thread that I saw.

Edited to add some the series 8 American supplied notes for use after WWII (to replace the Japanese notes). Also here are some oddball half baht notes:

Actually, my vast ignorance of Thai notes stands in stark contrast to what little I do know.

For instance, I had the opportunity to view the collection of a Thai Banknote Printing Works official. Mostly new, common stuff, boring until he got to the errors. One caught my eye as being impossible, and I called him on it. He explained as best he could how this occurred, but the language barrier precluded my understanding. He ultimately made the note a gift to me, but the only thing that I do understand is that the equipment and processes involved are quite dissimilar to that of the BEP. I still don't understand it, but here it is. Maybe someone can explain this in English?

First the reverse of a normal note:




Now the face and back of the alleged error note:

That is a fantastic collection of Thai notes - he says turning green with envy.

Now regarding the 20 baht you posted with the comment

"Here is the first signature combination, comprising only the first 5000 notes printed. This note (serial 004004) is to the best of my knowledge unique. There are no other known notes of this prefix / signature combination."


Here is the relevant section from my Thai book of Thai banknotes. This note was first issued in BE2491 (1948). There was a further issue with some similar signature sets two years later but the serial numbers were in black and the serial prefix started at F13.



Now here is the related info on the signature varieties. Unfortunately the relational number system they use is out of kilter. The signature on your note is 106.2 which corresponds to details in point 3 of the previous page (serial prefix F8-F12).



The price columns (in Thai bahts) are for grades G, XF and Unc. The last signature combination seems to be the rarer. Even if that run only went to 5000 and yours was obviously in circulation at some time then there must be some still out there?

Thanks very much for the possibilities WD, Vic, Ceylon. Actually the note was given to me by a Printing Works official (high ranking BEP equivalent), so his testimony coupled with your thoughts leaves me little room to argue its legitimacy. The watermark, and even the smallest of details are correct.

The main problem with catalogs and other books on Thai banknotes is plagiarism. One person who doesn't have his facts straight authors a book, others copy the bulk of it and cash in by authoring their own clone. I also have a catalog that is worthless, but I would have to say that it might be better than yours Vic. (I think that we may have done this comparison before).




I base my statement of the rarity of the note in question on conversations with a few of the top dealers and collectors in Thailand, and the fact that my uncle dropped a high six figures on this note, and he was not an idiot in what he collected. Just try finding another, anywhere, at any price. (Just try). Your book is wrong, my book is wrong. Yes, I do understand the prefix numbering and signature system. Here are some changeover prefix examples for the major varieties:



























De La Rue was also not immune to printing errors. The change from the red numbers on the 10 baht notes also incorporated the requested change in hue from light brown to dark brown for the main body of the note. This is why red serial numbered 10 baht notes have an overall different look about them than do the black numbered notes. Compare the following:



This change occurred from the red I6 to the black I7. A few notes from prefix I9 however, slipped in with the old underprint. Compare:



There is a similar anomaly in the N61 prefix of the 5 baht notes, but I think that this is probably a pigment miscalculation or ink adjustment:



Here is another of those odd backward overprint things on a 1925 1 baht note The ink 'does' look like it was wet and heavy when this happened:




Beginning with series 11 regular issue banknotes, the denominations were no longer prefix specific. 5 and 10 baht notes stared at prefix 0A, and all higher denominations started at prefix 00K. This scheme continued through series 12.







Beginning with series 13, the 00K Prefix was dropped, and prefix 0A became the first prefix for all regular issue notes regardless of denomination.



Special issue notes usually begin with prefix 9A, (while commemorative issues often begin with prefix 0E usually with a watermark other than that of the King).






Just as with a Napier / Thompson note, there are certain signatures and signature combinations that are rare, and will command huge premiums over other notes of the same series.












Here is a matching serial number pair. One regular issue with prefix 0A and the King's watermark....the other with prefix 9A and the Queen's watermark.

zeewool:

Do you telling me which Denominations/Signitures were copied for the Free Thai notes?

Other than their existence I have found little online about them. I have a friend that is going to Thailand in January, I hope that I can get him to bring me one of the catalogs back.

Thanks!

Okay Chris, here it is:

The notes are 1, 5, and 10 baht......They all have the same signature and here is a scan of it:







Here is a chart of the denominations (1 , 5, 10), the prefix letter and number and the serial number range that were redone by the English Government in WWII:







As you can see, both of the notes that I have pictured fall into these parameters.....The majority of notes (even if they have the same signature and the same prefix letter and number) are not Free Thai notes because their serial numbers do not fall within the range dictated by this chart.....You may have to copy the chart and blow it up to read it well.....Let me know if you need further clarification.