Pl, BU And MS Question

PROOF-LIKE sometimes abbreviated as PL, is an odd category. These are coins minted for special mint sets made for sale to collectors, and not intended for circulation. The mint never claimed they were anything other than choice MS coins, but are very early strikes from fresh dies and were selected out for the sets as nice coins before going through the entire mint handling process so tend have have higher lustre and fewer bag marks than MS coins. However they are not perfect mark-free coins and average PL-64 to PL-66 right out of the sets. Any experienced collector or dealer will know one when he see's one. The term Proof-like was invented by dealers to differentiate these from normal MS coins, for reasons I will discuss below. Proof-like sets were first sold to the public in 1954, although single PL coins earlier than 1954 do exist.



compliments from another site ccs

Specimen is probably a description of coins in relation to surfaces ie frosted,mirror fields,raised elements and so on, only a guess. j

NC = not circulated C = circulated

and buisness is circulated right?

if I'm wrong don't flame me. :D

But you gotta remember, MS (mint state) and BU (Brilliant Uncirculated), refer to levels of preservation, not how the coin was obtained or where its been.

An MS/BU coin retains the same level of quality and preservation as when it was minted. If by the term Uncirculated alone we assume the coins history, then I could take any MS coin, rub it in my fingers for a few weeks, down to an AU/XF, but still sell it as MS, because its never been in "circulation".




If you pulled it from a roll, that you got directly from a bank, that was still in its original wrapper, that would be circulated, right? What if you got that same roll from the market, or gas station. Circulated, right?

A coin from this roll could have absolutely no wear (or nicks, marks, etc) and be a Mid-grade MS coin, even though it was technically, circulated.





Yea I see that a lot myself.

I assume BU = MS60-62, CHBU = MS63-65, GemBU = MS65-*

Makes sense though, its harder to argue price/grade and they can slap a median price on the coin. chances are they paid at the bottom of the range (or a grade less) than what they marked the grade at.

Tell you what. you can get some great deals if you can break your dealers code, and be able to tell what they are in to a coin for.

Not quite. While the coin would still technically be uncirculated, it wouldn't still be in Mint State (MS) -- or, in condition similar to when it left the mint, and as such would no longer earn an uncirculated grade (MS60+).

On that note, it is very possible to pull a MS coin from circulation. Ever get a brand new coin straight out of a roll in your change? That has technically been in circulation, but would likely still grade MS60+.




That's how I understand it too. I just hate the whole BU nonsense. If you're going to assign a grade, assign a grade.

BU was always more a luster comment, wasn't it? It's a different attribute than the grade. And one that is badly handled right now.

It used to be applied to coppers too, but nowadays we have the slightly less useless Brown (<30%?), Red and Brown, and Red (>70%?). There's nothing modern for silver/nickel.

Perhaps the answer is to standardize everything with a new four value system:

Finish-Grade:Luster:Cameo

Finish: B (business strike), NC (non-circulation), SP (specimen), RP (reverse specimen), PR (proof), RP (reverse proof)
Grade: 10-100 (poor to perfect)
Luster: 0-100 (percentage of mint luster, or Cleaned if that is the case)
Cameo: 0-100 (from no cameo all the way to proof maximum)

Assume cameo proofs are by definition 100:100 luster:cameo

A rough mapping allowing finer grading at the top (each TPG would release their own specific mapping for their grades):

10 - Poor
20 - G
30 - VG
40 - F
50 - VF
60 - EF
70 - AU
80 - MS

e.g.

B-90:95:50 (~MS-65 with 95% full luster and 50% of maximum cameo)
B-70:Cleaned (AU cleaned)
SP-85:30:20 (a nice old toned specimen coin)
PR-92:100:100
PR-93 (assume 100% for luster and cameo, if not provided)

Want to go nuts? Allow for the obverse/reverse to be finally have independent grades:

B-55:30:0/35:20:0