Question On The 1880 O V-6 -Vs- V6A

Sorry, I missed that post also until just now.

I might think that things have reached the point that it probably doesn't really matter what the features of a coin are, as long as the date and mint mark are the same, you could designate anything as a vam-6 stage, and the chances that anyone would challenge it might be slim.

Does anybody here ever....you know....sleep?

Ahhhhhhhh.......Just woke up.....Ahhhh....Oh, are you still awake Dave ? You know, you really should try to get some sleep.....I feel a whole lot better after mine.....

Actually, I really do....I am all over my rage now.....Thanks to you all for not finishing me off when I was down.....Thanks especially to you Russ.....I will start the day off with a sweet and cheery attitude....you just watch !

Yes Ceylon....except it is NOT a thought / idea / concept.....(just like the paper folds that you mention), it actually happens....there are hundreds if not thousands of examples....

Uh oh.....I see displaced fields on this coin.....it is a die crack ! :

The OP with coin in hand seems unable to tell the difference, others, like myself have relied on online photos to make a determination.....I have been fooled more than a couple of times by online photos, and this may be another case of that....so until another is found or LVA examines coin in hand, I will stick with what I believe it to be.....When he says it is a crack or break, that is when I will believe it.

That proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that I was completely wrong and everyone else was completely right......This, (like Bryan's v-85), also shows what can be accomplished with a little motivation......At a cost of over $3k, there was definitely some sort of motivation behind the finding of a second v-85, but the motivation behind this find I doubt would have been so urgent without me....Regardless of the cause of motivation, it was found, and proves me wrong......Well done by someone....

edited to include factual content only.

No Gene, it couldn't.....there is only one reality, and I was definitely mistaken about it..... I know what you are trying to say, but do not feel badly for me.....I was the aggressor, and I pushed the issue and even went where I knew that I was unwelcome, but I did this for a reason, an ulterior motive.....I have no regrets, nor am I ashamed for being wrong after being so brazen in my quest....'mission accomplished' as I see it.


The politics of any group (as applied to the aggregate that comprises it) can be both predicted and dissected easily enough......whether it be a group of numismatists, scientists, sports fans, animals, etc. etc.......There are often lesser groups within larger groups......while it is true that 'birds of a feather fly together', the lesser group is often insecure in its position and must adapt to the 'safety in numbers' aspect of also belonging to a larger group of dissimilar rivals. Numismatics is a very good example of this concept. While a lion is comfortable entering into and challenging an entire herd of lesser animals, the lesser animal will never challenge a lion one on one, yet will exhibit great confidence and pseudo bravery when surrounded (and mutually protected) by the herd.

Yes, (this actually is coin related)......Consider, (hypothetically) that a person is studying and gathering information over a one or two year period, for a doctoral thesis, (in say, Sociology)......The prediction can be made that if a previously unknown coin of great significance, and of perceived high value is discovered, that there will be a vast army of collectors, dealers, gold diggers, etc, out immediately beating the bush for the next one....... and if there is another out there, it will be found within a very short time span of the original discovery.....the perceived monetary value of the discovery coin is a prime motivation for this brush beating to commence....... This is characteristic of individuals as well as groups and societies, and is as natural in its origin as a wildfire caused by a lightning bolt.

Now consider another scenario; Yet another type of motivation that can either occur naturally, or in some cases may be easily precipitated by inducement, or artificial stimulation......This type of motivation can not only be controlled, it is far more predictable than the previous type......For example.....an assertion concerning a coin is made that is both provocative and arrogant by an outsider in the midst of a group that is unified in common belief about this coin ...... the outsider's assertion is intensified to the point of what the group considers to be 'taunting'......the motivation for bush beating to find another coin that will discredit the claims of the outsider is born with a vengeance and a sense of urgency....... and if the coin is indeed found, the group (or herd) will celebrate to equally predictable degrees of relief and jeering.

Neither of these hypothetical scenarios is a bad thing, or a good thing for that matter, rather they are both products of human and animal nature......Motivation can happen spontaneously and naturally, and it can also occur due to projection of foreign stimulus......Consider again the hypothetical individual writing the thesis.......The premise for any good thesis or dissertation will be based on not only speculative expectations, but on observed occurrences as well.

The original discoverers of the coins have their trophies.......the secondary discoverers have their prizes as well....... the larger herd is safe yet bewildered at the lion's sudden loss of interest........ the smaller group hiding within the main herd rejoice......... as the most insecure and hypocritical of them (the one to sound the loudest alarm at the initial presence of the lion, is again the loudest at departure)......... as the lion (no longer an orphan cub in the midst of an unstable herd) 'walks' away, fearless and proud, but most of all, satisfied in the experience.

Everyone is a winner as the final pull of the handle comes to rest......... BAR---BAR---BAR.

Oh, I had thought that the crack is entirely possible through the rim, but the lack of visible planchet metal displacement into that crack seemed to lie somewhere between highly unlikely to near impossible....I was obviously mistaken if there indeed is another such coin with identical crack....I have learned more that just a few things on this one....Russ told me that his coin looks different in hand than it does in the pictures and that there actually 'is' a very small amount of metal displacement that I did not see.....On other coins of other years, I actually have seen metal displacement into the rim....but closure has now overcome me, as this was a rather trivial pursuit from beginning to end anyway.....I don't mind hearing more about it though.

As far as the extension of the crack being affected in some way by the collar, I had not considered that, but rather thought that possibly the lack of metal displacement into the crack and rim was a result of the hard planchet metal (archives documented) from improper planchet annealing at the N.O. mint.....Neither here nor there to me, and I would prefer be afforded time to lick my wounds before engaging in another round of speculatory battle over this particular coin....so I hope to restrain myself to lurking over this thread rather than continued posting on it (at least for a while....we'll see if that comes to pass)...