Post A Slabbed Coin In MS 63 And Lets Compare Them....

Coin grading is a term used to refer to the process of determining the condition or quality of a coin, and therefore its value. It is essential to know what the grade is of a particular coin, because, as a general matter, the higher the grade of a coin, the higher its numismatic value.

Coins are graded on a 0-70 point scale devised by Dr. William Shelby years ago. Today, this code is combined with letters to create a great coin grading scale that anyone can follow. The details can be found in the Official A.N.A. Grading Standards for United States coins published by the American Numismatic Association ( ANA). Under this method of grading, the higher the point scale accorded a particular coin, the better its quality.

The process of grading a coin is partly subjective and partly an art, rather than a true science. Accurate grading requires many years of skill and experience. However, determining an approximate grade is possible for even the novice coin collector.

The different grades for coin grades are as follows, starting with the best possible grade and working our way down from there.



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ANA Grading Standards
PF Proof A specially made coin distinguished by sharpness of detail and usually with a brilliant mirror like surface. Proof refers to the method of manufacture and is not a condition, but normally the term implies perfect mint state unless otherwise noted and graded as below.
Mint State or Uncirculated The terms Mint State (MS) and Uncirculated (Unc.) are interchangeably used to describe coins showing no trace of wear. Such coins may vary to some degree because of blemishes, toning or slight imperfections as described in the following subdivisions.
MS70 Perfect Uncirculated Perfect new condition, showing no trace of wear. The finest quality possible, with no evidence of scratches, handling or contact with other coins. Very few regular issue coins are ever found in this condition.
MS65 Choice Uncirculated An above average Uncirculated coin which may be brilliant or lightly toned and has very few contact marks on the surface or rim. MS67 through MS62 indicate slightly higher or lower grades of preservation.
MS60 Uncirculated Has no trace of wear but may show a number of contact marks, and surface may be spotted or lack some luster.
AU55 Choice About Uncirculated Barest evidence of light wear on only the highest points of the design. Most of the mint luster remains.
AU50 About Uncirculated Has traces of light wear on many of the high points. At least half of the Mint luster is still present.
EF45 Choice Extremely Fine Light overall wear shows on highest points. All design details are very sharp. Some of the Mint luster is evident.
EF40 Extremely Fine Design is lightly worn throughout, but all features are sharp and well defined. Traces of luster may show.
VF30 Choice Very Fine Light even wear on the surface and highest parts of the design. All lettering and major features are sharp.
VF20 Very Fine A moderate amount of wear is noticeable on the high points of the coin's design. All major details are clear.
F12 Fine The coin shows moderate to considerable even wear throughout. Entire design is bold with an overall pleasing appearance.
VG8 Very Good Well worn with main features clear and bold although rather flat.
G4 Good Heavily worn with the design visible but faint in areas. Many details are flat. Common coins in "Good" condition are not particularly desirable pieces for collectors. Rare or valuable coins in this condition, however, are often saved when no others are available.
AG3 About Good Very heavily worn with portions of lettering date and legends worn smooth. The date may be barely readable.

Sometimes people need to be careful of what they wish for as they might get it

There is a lot of VAM talent that has been assembled to help teach this wonderful hobby.

On this forum

You ain't lyin'. And I am grateful.

Looks cleaned to me.... I'll say MS-63 details...

Dave, You wrote " Yet, then, we are at the mercy of the TPG's opinions to define our own."

A very strong statement, as I believe we as a collecting group of students, me 47+ years, have come to accept the TPG'S as gospel and certain folks, I love that word, would use a slabbed coin as a base line for the grading skills as we know them.

I on the other hand DO NOT take anything they have labeled as truth, why you might ask, I do not believe the TPG'S are using the official ANA Grading Standards to justify our trust placed in them to do the right thing by grading our coins according to those standards and since the powers to be have basically gone unchallenged, they have created an industry that has been dictating grades, the way THEY fell they should be and this I do NOT agree with.

I sense the grading art/science/personal observations will improve in time to come as the powers to be IMO, Need more consistency in their final product to again gain the respect needed to accomplish the task of grading coins and have the label match the coin's actual condition.

PS, OZ, I believe the first person to come up with the grading scale, still used today was Dr.William Sheldon,(1949) which are still used today......With the zero-70 scale of grading.
Also OZ, Your input in this topic is very much appreciated and admired, Thanks for ALL you do.......

I would like to express one thought of the sheldon scale...
IN ANY SCALE..there is UNIFORMITY in its scale...AN eveness...of in this case..a uniformity of wear..., But this is not the case in the Sheldon scale, which was designed to evaluate grade levels. for any coins denomination....

Lets look at the sub-MS coins........
THE degree of wear is self evident.. the grades show REASONABLY
wear, between ANA grades, PHOTO GRADE follows the same premise...
THE wear (grade) is determined by overwhelmingly obvious points of wear shown by the coins wear...(just look at the photo's I will not
analyze when you can see for your self)...
but when it comes to MS COINS.....The details...are not on a level playing field....An acceptable PROGRESSION of wear....While the details are pronounced. in the ANA NO PHOTO'S are REVIELED....
That is why we have TPG's today....This is why we have slider coins (AU58-MS63 coins out there) and why we have so much discussion of ABOUT grading ...AND THIS IS WHY ONE MUST LEARN TO GRADE. to the Standards of the TPG's..DO I always agree? NO...WIll I question? yes....The fact is..MS coins have far more stringent varibles than non MS COINS...ITS not an equal playing field....
THE KEY FACTOR IS WEAR......and who see's or accepts it..or not....it is the most critical ARGUMENT the CRUX of this debate.
Also one must understand ones eye's does not always see what another see's, just look at a photograph... IS it the eye of the beholder or a different point of view....that some how must be put into the blender to get a consensis?

I

The TPG's have the standards which the public has learned to accept. By and large, over the years, they haven't done too awful bad with the burden (and a large burden it was). The few misses have gotten disproportionate publicity compared to the multitude of hits.

We live in an era when it is no longer possible for the TPG's to be the only possible solution to propagation of grading standards. I don't mean to belabor the point, but a whole_lot of what used to be "accepted truth" about what's "right" with grading is going to change in the next few years because the information can no longer be private. Grading standards will no longer be top-down. Too many of us have the ability to accurately portray coins; too many venues exist where we can discuss it amongst ourselves and come to independent conclusions about appropriate grades.

That will, in some circumstances, lead to a cacophony of opinions which won't help. "Much sound and fury, signifying nothing."

But in other places, the discourse which will eventually affect how the TPG's grade our coins will happen. We, the people who buy the coins they grade, will ultimately make the choice about how they grade. We will vote with our wallets, informed to a degree which wasn't comprehensible when the TPG system originated.

I don't say this in adversarial terms. I believe wholeheartedly in *some* system which allows us to buy sight-unseen, and the TPG system as-is, is the best solution. But they don't have to tell us what's MS-63 any more.

Let us remember one important factor here...While you ...Or I...may have differences...its through our discussions that we may bring about a meeting of the minds. and find understanding...It's not about my will or yours, but an understanding that we can acknowledge...WE have been governed by processes we all know we question...That is our right. to question..."By our Thoughts and WILL we strive to find understanding..despite our differences...

GN all Gene