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Question About Coinsandcanada.com

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2011  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list
It's not a variety, any more than an XWL is a variety because there are no new features to cause the variety. The only thing distinguishing these from their normally struck brothers is die damage. Where a high and low seven DO make a variety, die chips and cracks do not. A small bead and a large bead variance is a variety and so on. I guess though we're just quibbling over nomenclature.

Having said that, there are relatively few coins struck in Canada compared to our southern neighbours and thus every little thing that comes along gets noted and named. bug tail, arrow, XWL, attached 6 ... you know the drill. Really there so few variations when you look through the history of coins from 1906 up compared to other countries, it's no wonder we tend to name every variance no matter what it was caused by.
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Canada
1161 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2011  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladhunter13 to your friends list
So I guess that I should think of this 1996 attached 6 along the same line as the US Lincoln B"I"E.
Valued Member
Canada
248 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  04:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commoncents13 to your friends list
Curious what is a B"I"E and

Quote:
It's not a variety, any more than an XWL is a variety because there are no new features to cause the variety.

---Unless the book has been changed by somebody a (XWL) is a variety for 1964 Nickels.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list
All hail the book.

Not.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1161 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladhunter13 to your friends list

Quote:
Curious what is a B"I"E and


Take a look at the pics on this link. The B"I"E is a die chip between the B and the E of LIBERTY on the Lincoln Cent.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...ln+cent
New Member
Canada
6 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zoomrr69 to your friends list
Does a die chip always occur at the same spot....I have several of them 96 "attached ones" with that particular "error"
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Canada
1581 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dialog_gvf to your friends list

> Unless the book has been changed by somebody a (XWL) is a variety for 1964 Nickels

I think intent to release has to exist for a variety. The 1964 XWL wasn't from an intentional design. It's a die break, and thus strictly an error, like the 1936 bar 25c.

These are recognized, popular and well collected errors, to be sure, but they are still an errors and not varieties.

Now: Is a mule is a variety or not? :)

Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list
I personally consider a mule to be in a class of it's own and a well defined type of mint error.

I don't think it'a a variety nor is it a damaged die error ala the 1996 attached six and so on. There is no intent (supposedly) to make a mule, the mint claims this is human error. Also, there could be distinct varieties and damaged die variations of a mule coin.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list

Quote:
Does a die chip always occur at the same spot

It can, most die designs have a point(s) of inherent weakness that will be subject to repeated chipping and cracking on the production dies as they wear out. Of course, random cracks and chips can also happen as well.
Edited by biokemist6
04/28/2011 5:01 pm
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Canada
902 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add littlemoney to your friends list
I would have to say a mule has to be an intentional error, or at the very least poor control on the mint's part.
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Canada
9872 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
I believe a mule is a variety,not unlike near 6 far 6 or high 7 low 7,which would not exist if some mint employee had not erred in digit placement.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10048 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2011  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Fast answer - nope!

But after seeing it - I think it would be neat to find one.

I admit one of my loves in the coin collecting hobby is Canadian Nickels, and I have yet to figure out why! However, when I tried to get back into coins a few years ago, I got tired of seeing all the minutiae that were being recognized and, at least I thought, considered part of a complete set. The only thing I was missing from 1922 up was a 1951 high relief. And even this was something I was not sure I wanted to pursue. I am old fashioned enough that if it is easy to see (far vs near 6, EWL, 47 dot), then I like it. But if it is obviously from a die being chipped - like this attached 6 - then it just sticks in my mind as mechanical "error" and not really a part of the "real" (to my mind) set. To me, the EWL looks like it was engraved this way, although I see from a post in this topic that this actually was a die break - oh well. This attached 6 obviously looks like the die broke.

I think what discouraged me was on varieties is that I used to go to a coin shop in Niagara Falls (at top of the hill - across from the bank - on Lundy's lane). So after re-entering the hobby, on my first visit North, I went to this shop. They had a lot of nickel varieties for sale I had not seen/heard of. I knew I had to get them to "complete" my set.

One of these was a 1963 which they had boldly written on the 2X2 that it had an "attached AD." After inquiring they said that the A preceding the D in Canada - above the date - were attached at their bases. Sure enough the letters were attached! Hmmm... only $3.00. I found it unlisted in the Charleton I had just bought. But I thought that surely something this major would be a good variety to have ... so I bought it.

I went to the bank in Canada before returning to the States and bought 100.00 worth of nickels to roll search. Every single 63 I found has the attached AD! So I spent 3.00 at the coin shop for something I found 20+ of in bank rolls! And to this day I have yet to see an "unattached AD 1963. Has anyone seen one?

Anyway, this experience taught me to be a lot more educated before buying. Granted, it was only 3.00 I threw away, but it left a bad taste in my mouth for Canadian nickels varieties. So I tend only to like the official ones listed in the book. And even these I want to be something that looks not to be caused from mechanical error/chipping. The 1951 high relief might be nice - but would I be able to pick it out of a crowd of 1951's? I do not know.

The hardest part of all this is having to recognize that the deeper the hobby goes into the micro-minute differences, the farther I get from ever being able to say I actually have a "complete set."



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10463 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2011  09:46 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Here is one for you to 'mule' over (pardon the pun!). What about the 5-cent no chrome coins from 1944-45, and from 1951-54. The strike is no different from a chromium plated coin, and there is no damage to the die... You can also get the 1953 mule 5-cent coins, in no-chrome (quite rare). Planchet error, or variety?

Other Canadian 'varieties', I don't think are varieties at all. Take the 1859 brass cent, as an example. I think this is a mixing error of the original poured ingot, prior to rolling. You can see the same thing in 5-cent Cu-Ni coins from the mid-1980s, where differential cooling resulted in poorly mixed ingots, yielding Cu-rich brown 5c coins. Both examples to me, are errors, and not intentionally struck as varieties.

Where does hub doubling fit in? The dies are struck from the master hub, so the design elements are indeed part of the die (1974 double yoke nickel dollar). Variety? Hub damage? Error?

I guess my point is that trying to hammer all these square pegs into two distinct round holes can be difficult, but it is these nuances that make coin collecting so much fun.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2011  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list


No one said any of these errors have to be mutually exclusive and all varieties can be combined will all mint errors for their type. So a matrix of two square can potentially be a matrix of 5-8 square if there is a possibility for that much variance within the making of that coin.

And that is the hunt for Red October, difficult but not impossible to find combinations of readily attributed variances from standard in the least common combinations possible.
New Member
Canada
5 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2011  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add charlesfarley to your friends list
Hi. I do sometimes wonder about Canadian coin mules. What astounds me is how some people don't research or reads anymore.Having said this I have just begun to do this myself because there are so varied opinions out there.Day before yesterday a new Canadian penny sold for thirteen dollars on ebay.A Rare Magnetic penny.Man I have a lot of them I hope it is true.Most of the new ones are able to be picked up by a magnet.On another subject.What about the nickle bug tail beaver coins is this really a mule I have three. Charley
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