NGC AU-50 1840 Goa Rupia

The side with dentils on the fake one don't look alike, it's less wide.
But what I find strange on this one, is that the edge dentils don't go to the end of the coin - check near rupia (it's plain there at the edge)
Swamperbob, are you thying to tell us NGC certified a copy ? :D (wouldn't be the first time ...)

MathieuMa Hats off to you for checking. You have actually posted a photo of one of this coin's BROTHERS from China.

The coin is 100% FAKE. Estimated to be about 8 years old they are Chinese. There are at least 3 or 4 other known copies. But this one was actually encapsulated by NGC.

It is a RARE FIND only because it was GRADED by NGC.

I am a bit surprised how - knowing my specialty - so many people don't immediately say - Wait a minute, you collect counterfeits. What's up? I have actually had legitimate offers to buy this as real.

This coin has a good solid history. It was sold last year at an ANA show in Ohio by a very reputable dealer with good credentials. Prior to that it was in a sale by a large auction house who has a resident expert in foreign coins who was fooled.

I am omitting all names because the current owner who also wishes to remain anonymous does not want to tarnish reputations by asking for a refund. He has agreed to sell the coin to me at a substantial loss to be used as a teaching aid.

I have contacted NGC and sent in all the "proof" they should need to know conclusively that the coin is a forgery. There is a PERFECT 100% guaranteed proof of forgery on this coin that is not seen on the others. That Proof is so obvious that I saw it in seconds BUT NGC missed it.

I have contacted NGC and got a couple very quick responses - they would like the coin back. OF COURSE THEY WOULD. I have offered to bring it to them to show them the problem but under no circumstances is this coin coming out of the holder.

I will post a micro photo of one section of the coin showing the feature that CAN NOT HAPPEN on a real die struck coin.

Can you spot it?

I should have known swamperbob was up to something.

But, I still don't feel bad because I've never really claimed to know much about anything to begin with!

You're the man when it comes to stuff like this.

Still no takers on the question of how can I tell this is fake?

Hint - it has nothing to do with the fact that this coin purports to be an 1840 Portuguese India coin. It could happen on any coin of any age made anywhere and the clue would be IDENTICAL.

It is a simple but conclusive ERROR.

I'd go for the A continuing on the right side of the break.
Or metal going higher on the left side of the break (there should be a step here, but no higher metal)

PS : sorry if it's not that clear, english is not my native language :)

Thx as usual for the lesson swamperbob :D

There is one other item I would like to point about this coin that is actually a serious anomaly.

It is one of the dots which was shown previously circled in blue to the left of the letter G. See picture below from the World Coin EU Forum.



The same dot appears on my earlier photo that shows the crack. Here it is circled in yellow. It looks like a simple die ding that fills with metal.



But here is that same area (rotated 30 degrees counterclockwise and viewed at 500X.



If you notice there is now a very curious thing visible. The dot is clearly raised above the average level of the field of the coin (the die surface) but there is an INCUSE square area around the base of the dot. This incuse area is depressed BELOW the field level and would have to be a raised square on the actual die.

That is a very ODD FEATURE.

Another proof of forgery.

TwoKopeiki Ghosting is definitely present as well as some doubling from the original strike or strikes. Both features were copied onto the counterfeit dies used to strike this coin. When thinking about this coin we must clearly think in terms of two dies and two strikes. What happened to make the original coin look like it did and what happened in the counterfeit strike.

The ghosting in my opinion is a feature of the host coin which the forgers copied when making this die. There may also be some added erosion of the counterfeit die making it a bit more confusing. But which ever die is involved GHOSTING is present.

Ghosting occurs as a result of the way a die wears. It happens around sharply defined features that were cut or punched into the original die. Many of these early dies were made with small punch tools that gouged lines into the die face or which actual punches that exerted significant impact force to a small area of the metal. This impact force can harden the metal just slightly more that the surrounding metal.

In addition, the method used for hardening of the die after it is finished can be effected by any sharp features, so that the die just a slight bit harder right at the die feature than a fraction of a mm away. The theory of ghosting presumes that the result is a differential in the rate of wear right near any sharp die feature. This creates erosion in the die surface next to the feature more quickly than in the adjacent field. This depression in the die translates to a ghost image on the die.

I hope that is clearer than mud.

This is a much discussed topic and you can find experts with different explanations for the mechanism that causes ghosting. BUt it is most often seen on well used dies near the end of their useful life.

It is confusing but die wear rates are clearly involved.

Sure, that's totally clear and logical--once explained. It's akin to hearing Sherlock Holmes' explaining his train of logic--it seems simple in retrospect.