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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2011  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
This is actually a lesson on two points. I'll reveal part of this first:
What is a variety? To the purist a die variety is created while the mint was hubbing or punching the mint mark. What types of varieties are there?
RPM (RePunched Mint Mark)
Doubled die. The die during the hubbing process creating the die, didn't get the same hub/or the same hub with more wear on it/rotated/toward the center hubbing/warped hub/modified hub. So these are created when the die was created.
OM (Over mint mark) Dies were shipped from location to another and the mint mark was added over an existing mint mark. IE: S/D or O over CC.
OD (Over date) Which happened on 19th century coins where the dies were created in sections or parts added. (Usually the dates) Sometimes a die was re-used with a date from a different year over another previous year. In the 20th Century the devices were all placed on the master die so over dates weren't possible unless a die was hubbed with one year and hubbed again with the next year. IE 1942/1 Dimes 1943/2 Nickels.
So in this message there is a clue about varieties. Which is part of the answer.
Edited by coop
08/02/2011 12:29 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2011  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
My answer to the original post: none of the above.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2011  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
So it's a hub variety then?
Pillar of the Community
United States
744 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2011  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wild Bill to your friends list
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2011  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
It is a variety, a doubled die that shows on the bottom edges of the date. and faintly on the E on WE. It is a new find of mine that was different from the other examples found so far on coppercoins.com It reminded me of the 1962 proof DDO:
What-Is-This?
It is different, but the 62 proofs made me start looking at different years for the same type of doubling and this coin was my first discovery of something similiar on the date. Just another reminder to search for the same type of doubling that may have been found on coins in the same date range. I just wanted to share.
Pillar of the Community
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2624 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2011  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list
I agree with twohawks. I see two lines on left side of the 9 and 6 which to my untrained eyes look like 3x strike
Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2011  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bournepiper to your friends list
I guess doubled die, think I remember seeing this pic you posted before?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2011  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
It is a die variety like coppercoins mentioned. A doubled die.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2011  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
What confuses things is that in the top picture it does show the die doubling, but it also appears to show some MDD as well. The lower picture shows just the DDO.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 09/28/2011  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
On Machine Doubling damage, the doubling is flat/shelf like. On this coin the doubling is rounded as you would find on a hub doubled die.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2624 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list
It looks like MD on the "3" in second pic but could be an illusion due to lighting.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list
None of the OP images (1963 cent) show Machine Doubling. There's no Machine Doubling on that coin. It is a doubled die.
Pillar of the Community
United States
526 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BJ Neff to your friends list
Thanks Coop for this thread. It shows the need for attributers, for without them more than a few doubled dies would be tossed as Machine Doubling. Second, it shows how tricky a doubled die looks on a proof coin. The lack of notching on the serifs and with only the division lines to identify this as a doubled die can throw the novice variety collector into a tail spin.

This is a common problem that I see at coin shows where I do verbal attributions on variety and error coins. The average collector does not know the difference between Machine Doubling and a doubled die. Sites such as this and LCR, with people like Chuck Daughtery, Bob Piazza, Richard Cooper, Billy Crawford, Mike Diamond, Jason Cuvelier, who are willing to spend that extra time answer questions like this are most valuable and a great learning tool.

BJ Neff
Pillar of the Community
United States
2624 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2011  12:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDon to your friends list
I see something (circled). The "3" looks like MD to me,the "6" I have no idea. I copied the original here for comparison

What-Is-This?

What-Is-This?
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2011  01:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cannibal to your friends list
I'll take a poke. To me the 6 looks like it was in perfect shape until grease or dirt was scraped out of the working die with some sort of something. As far as the 3, I see a normal 3. I haven't really looked at the letters yet.
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