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Key Date Problem Coins

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Australia
16869 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
I voted "No", mainly because I wouldn't pay the extra bucks expected for key dates, whether they were "problem coins" or not. Date-filling and set-completing aren't high priorities for me.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
Really depends on the problem, the price, rareity, avaailability and on and on with all sorts of situations.
Some examples would be a 1885 Liberty Head Nickel in almost MS-66 except for a small scratch on the back, near the rim for say $100.
Or an 1894S Liberty Head Dime also in almost MS-66 grade with a dent on the edge for $1,000.
1856 Flying Eagle cent with a scratch on the reverse and accross the One Cent but for $500.
Just to many possible differences in the type of problem, the coin itself, the price, etc.
Such a poll would have to have many more subjects to make it even slightly decent.
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United States
149 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ca Dreamin to your friends list
when you try to sell a problem coin, most of the time you'll wish you hadn't purchased it. I realize many members might not be thinking of selling now, but most of us will at some point in time.
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9104 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list
This whole area was a problem for TPG from the start. In order to establish their original concept of "all ms65 coins are the same, and can be traded sight unseen, like stock certificates", they had to kick back any problem coins, typically called "body bags". Instead of doing what they should have done in the first place and determine whether such coins are genuine, they'd charge to tell you nothing of use.

This created a new problem. Instead of letting collectors determine grades and values, they set up a de facto sorting of coins, into "genuine, grade xyz, defect free" and "not collectable and worthless, because we don't like the looks, even though there is no question that it's genuine."

There are thousands of previously detectably cleaned or scratched svdbs that tens of thousands of collectors (as opposed to speculators) would be thrilled to own. Since when does someone else have the right to say "that's not collectable"?

Now that they realize they painted themselves into a corner (and the speculator market they hoped would send coin prices skyrocketing never developed), they went to "market grading" (this au58 coin is so nice, it should bring ms64 money, so we'll grade it ms64) and "net grading" (we think this toning, cleaning or scratches should lower the value by a grade, so the coin is au55, net xf40). Then when the market changes and such toning is held as a positive, you have an au55 in an xf40 holder that should sell for ms63 money.

All the more reason we don't need tpgs, period. Authenticators, absolutely, but grades are nothing more than something to argue about.
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 Posted 07/31/2011  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
There are thousands of previously detectably cleaned or scratched svdbs that tens of thousands of collectors (as opposed to speculators) would be thrilled to own. Since when does someone else have the right to say "that's not collectable"?

Sort of what I was attempting to say. Way to many variables to make one such statement as not collectable or junk or whatever.

Quote:
when you try to sell a problem coin, most of the time you'll wish you hadn't purchased it. I realize many members might not be thinking of selling now, but most of us will at some point in time.

And again, it all depends on the coin, the price, the so called problem, how rare and on and on with the so many different situations. With some of the coins with such low mintages, it would surely be dumb not to pick up a 1916D Mercury dime with a few scratches if it was in an AU condition and for about $100. Even $300 or much more.
Even less likely to ignore some coins with only a few hundred thousand minted due to a small problem.
When you start thinking of well over 350,000,000 people in the USA and many more millions in other countries and a decent percent coin collectors, imagine how many are looking for the same coins, problems or not.
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 Posted 07/31/2011  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
Based on justcarl's last comment, I could not agree more. I have bought and sold problem coins and have always sold them for more than I bought them for. Just for the record, I purchased my 09-S VDB for $800, and have had offers of $900-$1,100 for it.

BTW carl, an 1894-S Barber dime for $1,000! I wish!
swcoin.ecrater.com
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United States
609 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hambone to your friends list
Hey, check this 1866 IHC out: http://cgi.ebay.com/1866-Indian-Cen...ht_500wt_969

haha, only $14.44!
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16680 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
Funny.
I consider a semi-key. There has been debate about this too.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list
There is a brisk market for honestly presented problem coins today, especially with ebay and the like. I'd rather have a vf 16 slq with a scratch on the feathers than some of the PO-1 and FR2 slobbed ones I've seen.
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16680 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list

Quote:
Many of the coins that I collect, early coppers, have environmental issues. With the early dates you have no choice but to accept porosity, granularity or some verdigris if you want that coin.



The same is true of Colonials. There are some that just have problems, you just have to deal with it.
All of the known Sommer Island "Hoggy money" have corrosion issues as all specimens to my knowledge, were found on Bermuda by metal detectorists. PCGS knows that these are extremely rare so all slabbed specimens I have seen, are in problem free PCGS holders.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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United States
2734 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list

Quote:
There is a brisk market for honestly presented problem coins today

But there is a difference between, for example, an 1866 Indian Head cent VF Details (rim nicks or light corrosion) and the ebay example above that looks like a tortilla.
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16680 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2011  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
Ha,
If it don't fit into a Dansco, I no buy!
swcoin.ecrater.com
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2011  01:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
All of the known Sommer Island "Hoggy money" have corrosion issues as all specimens to my knowledge, were found on Bermuda by metal detectorists. PCGS knows that these are extremely rare so all slabbed specimens I have seen, are in problem free PCGS holders.

Why is this coin in a problem free holder when another in identical condition gets a problem designation?

All known coins of that issue have problems.

So when the prince's sock drawer is checked and one is found with no problem, then what?

Well, we could offer to downgrade all existing ones to their correct grade, but it'll be simpler just to grade the newly found one ms92.
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16680 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2011  01:58 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
I know biggfredd, I don't get it either.
The Sommer Island I saw was from Heritage and was in a PCGS VG8 holder. The coin was so badly corroded, you can barely make out the details of the hog.
I have sent coins to PCGS that have had the tiniest rim ding and bam!.... problem.
This is why I use TPGs only for their holder around my coin. I can care less what they think of the coins problem(s) or grade.
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190118 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2011  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I think everyone is going to answer "depends".
Add me to the list. Eye appeal is most important to me; and of course it is subjective. I have no problem when I cannot see the "damage" and I am paying the right price.
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