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Am I Wrong ?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list
If as you were going through the coins you brought up that coins individual issues, I couldn't see that the dealer should have a problem. Maybe that would give you an opportunity to negotiate on a price, taking into consideration that coin's issues.

On the otherhand I could see the dealer having an issues if you go through and pick out 20 coins and in re-examining each you put it back due to issues. The dealer may have felt he had a good sale on his hand and then it just disappeared.

KK
Valued Member
United States
404 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add akane17 to your friends list
Doing it once the dealer shouldn't get upset, he should be trying to earn your business. You walk into the store every week spending 30-40 minutes cherrypicking and not buying...different story.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list

Quote:
Bryan; most states have commercial statutes which prevent a merchant from charging more than the sticker price.

I am not sure about that. I have never heard of a law saying someone Has to sell you something because its marked at that price, they can just say its marked wrong. Some places may sell it to you for that price but as far as I know there is no law saying a store has got to lose money on something just because someone made a mistake. But yeah its not worth the hassle trying to take it any further, I would probably have bought more in that one day than this guy sells all month in his little rinky dink shop. Maybe thats why he was bitter and trying to jack up the prices, they were getting ready to turn his lights off or something
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list
In Michigan they have; "The Item Pricing act", and "The Shopping reform and modernization act".
Connecticut Gen Statute 42-115p. Massachusetts has its "Item Pricing Law" also 940CMR 3.13(I). Ohio has "The Consumers Sales Practices act". California Business and Professional code sections 17500-17509. A quick check shows at least 27 States and Territories have a specific pricing law. Most others have Consumer Protection Acts.

There is a clear difference between an error in price by an add in the paper that is attributable to a printer; and an in store pricing error. Mistakes in price outside of the Companies control are not usually binding upon the Company. Mistakes made internally are usually binding. But not always. IF one item of many similar items is miss-marked it is generally considered an honest mistake and not binding. If an entire display is miss-marked then it is generally considered binding.

Talk to anyone who has worked in Senior Management in Retail and they will tell you horror stories that deal with miss-marked merchandise. A marked price is a legally contracted offer to sell. Changing the price upwards after the buyer has agreed to purchase is Illegal. There are, of course, exceptions for actual mistakes. But ignorance of true value is not one of them. Again if you have a sign that says something along the lines of "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone..." then they can deny the sale, but leave themselves open to other legal recourse. Usually refusal to service claims are rooted in unruly customers. Most other causes are questionable at best. And heaven help you if the customer you refused was something other than a WASP.

Again I am not a lawyer. At one time I was a Regional Manager for a National Retail Establishment. As such I had to undergo extensive training in statute and case law, pertaining to my profession. And the above is my understanding of basic business practices and laws as instructed to me by our Corporate Lawyers.

Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list
I just re-read my answer, and while I hold to it, I realize that it seems kinda dry, almost harsh. It is just my habit of being literal to questions. I don't MEAN to sound confrontational, but I guess it sounds like that sometimes. My apologies if my followup sounded that way.
Pillar of the Community
2224 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list
Window shop all you want. You're the customer with the money. Don't feel guilty and walk.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1064 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JackB to your friends list

Quote:
Window shop all you want. You're the customer with the money. Don't feel guilty and walk
Agree completely; sometimes it seems we look at coin dealers differently, maybe as someone that knows way more than we do, at least for those of us that lack numismatic experience.
Moderator
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Australia
16831 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2011  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I don;t know how you do it. I don't think I'm physically capable of walking into a coin shop and not buying something. THere would have to be clear evidence of fraud or criminal activity for me to do that.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2011  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list
Retail manager here, so I know what I am talking about. And those of you who are comparing a coin shop to a retail establishment are so far off base its not even funny.

In a retail store these employees get paid no matter what. They are being paid an hourly wage to do that job. At the end of the week they get their paycheck regardless of wether people browse or not. And dont start with "if no one buys anything the store will go out of business and then they wont get paid." That gets addressed...

In a retail store like Walmart, it is expected that a certain percentage of people are not going to buy anything. It doesn't matter that that small number of folks dont buy. The majority of people going in there DO buy, so no biggy. And just how many thousands of people go into a Walmart every day?

This goes for any larger retailer. This hlds true in the medium to smaller retailers as well, but dedicating time to a non buyer begins to be more costly. They have less foot traffic, therefor even a few browsers that dont buy start to cut into profit.

I work for one of the large pet retailers. Let me tell you, when someone comes in and picks my brain for a half hour about how to set up a marine aquarium, then doesn't even buy a book from me, I am TICKED. Yes, I get paid no matter what. But he just took me away from other customers and or tasks I could have been doing. But again, its just an annoyance as I do still get paid.

Now, the coin dealer. Unless the dealer is HUGELY succesful and can afford to pay 3 or 4 employees, he/she is runnning the store by themselves or with some family help. They are not employed by a corporation. They do NOT automatically get paid each week. They do NOT have the luxry of counting on the 150 other folks milling around to make up for you tying them up going through their merchandise. There are NOT 150 other people. Maybe 50 for the whole day, IF they are lucky. And if smeone else comes in while you are monopolising his time, he can not help them. Would YOU walk away from someone looking through YOUR coins to do something else? If you would, you are a fool.

So, you go in, you ti this man up for who knows how long going through his merchandise. I am quite sure you were not doing this without asking questions as well, mining information and knowledge. And all of this time he is NOT being paid. And then you say nah, I'm not going to buy any of this stuff? And you have the nerve to wonder why he was mad? You just WASTED a good chunk of this mans time and he got NOTHING out of it. YOU got plenty out of it. And all for free.

Again I say, all of you think that that is OK?
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2011  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Just by way of establishing cred, I earn my living the same way you do, smokeriderdon.

I agree with all you've said, with one rather large exception.

A coin dealer has to understand his demographic. He's serving coin collectors - specialists - people who have specific wants and needs, and at any given time he may not have their particular want or need in stock. That's how collecting coins works. We're not (usually) generalists. So, it's my contention that this case is an exception to your (true) point about retail owner-operators. Coin dealers get lots of tire-kickers. It's that simple.
Valued Member
Australia
278 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2011  02:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gecko to your friends list
I think it is ok.
If he is really that cut up about me looking through his coin shop to see if he has something I want, maybe he shouldnt be in the coin selling buisness.

I used to sell cars, if they saw nothing they wanted why should I get angry at them?

But saying that.... I CAN'T go into a coin store and not buy something....
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2011  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
I think SD is SPOT ON, while many dealers think they are there so they can collect the money, However "there is" a relation ship if you are to be a frequent buyer...I have been noted at my casual shop "He looks for high end stuff" on the cheap....who wouldn't... yet I do buy something so there time and my relationship is not waisted.....I,m poor and they know it..the junk buckets are for me,, but if I want a $300 coin. they set out the silver tray's....
The repour (spelling) your have with your local friend means all the difference......Last year I found a coin he knew wouldn't grade, it had been cleaned.......once to many times, as coins have been...Its an 1881-s MS 67/8..Its gourgeous...yet it shows some details of cleaning, spots not wanted...That coin would be $300 but for $45 I had to play the game and wait... I knew it was cleaned but in that condition..I paid $40....That is the the difference...They move Metals now more that even over the coin...The friendship you have makes more in the long run.....if they will offer you a deal...and they will offer you as a return customer value deals...How much of a knock off will an MS67/8 81-s be 40%? not 40 bucks....Thats the relationship.
If they know you..as a casual buyer, its not the same as a nobody that enters the shop...you may never return....neither will the deals...
New Member
United States
7 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2011  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rifleman to your friends list
I agree that the dealers are to serve the customer. I can also see how tying up time for no good reason would be irritating.

smokeriderdon: What if the dealer's coins are mostly cleaned or overgraded? If that's the case, then part of the blame for the customer cherrypicking is on the dealer.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2011  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list
Dave, I get that there are going to be window shoppers and the like. I also ge tthat people are going to want to look at some items closer. But the OP specifically said he cherry picked. You and I both know that does NOT mean simply tire kicking. Cherry picking indicates longer term higher involvement, falling into what I was saying.

Rifle...what if worms had machine guns? Birds wouldnt $%^& with them. I HATE what if questions like that. The presumption here is a dealer that knows what they are doing and is therefor at least somewhat succesful. Someone like that is not going to remain in business for long.
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United States
4618 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2011  03:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list
I've never had a problem with coin dealers. When I go in and look at coins, my favorite dealer will unlock the glass cases for me and let me look at the coins as he waits on other customers. I know that it has to be rare for a dealer to trust a customer that much, but I've bought coins from him for 20 years (and I think he has a big gun behind the counter, too.)

I wouldn't let it worry me if someone got upset over a special trip they made if they had a coin that didn't match the grade they gave it. I would tell them why I didn't think it was worth the money, but don't let someone guilt you into buying.

A good salesman will do what the customer wants or needs.

I looked at a car for 4 years before buying one. In that time, I took my wife, her parents, my co-workers and made a total of maybe 50 trips to the dealership by myself just to look at the car. Each time I went, I would talk to the same salesman and he never said anything to me but "See ya soon!" as I left. If he ever had a problem with me he didn't show it.

When they final offered all the features I wanted on the car I put down a deposit, ordered one built to my specs and then waited 4 months while it was being built.

I kept going in at least twice a month while I waited for it to get updates on what point the car was at in the process.

I would never settle for anything but what I wanted in a coin. If the seller has a problem with the way I shop, too bad. They need to understand that I'm the one that has to like the coin after the purchase. I can always go elsewhere and find what I want if they don't have the time to let me shop "My way."

From what I've read, you can order coins made to your specs now too, but I only want real ones.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!!
Am-I-Wrong-?


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