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Trying To Get An Idea About B1 Reverse Collectors....

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
My only intake on this subject is no one one holds onto a rare abnormality... it means CASH....real cash.....your friends if they have something special...are loosing out...
today something special. tomarrow something common? or what?
Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  05:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Good Morning Gene, Are you saying or suggesting these ' friends" sell these coins? I like others have no plans to do any such thing, maybe the Mint state dbl's......I actually think a collection like the title states IS not all that easy to put together, just my opinion......

I am actually surprised I even mentioned what I have, and was thinking some others might give us an idea, As I have said before, I do NOT think the registry sets are the actual reflection of the reality of just what IS out there.......PS, Very sweet collection Noel....
Valued Member
United States
54 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  07:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCTrader to your friends list
I am not familiar with a B1 reverse or the years they occurred.

Could someone give a brief explanation or direct to a site.

Thank you.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
basically, The B1 reverse Is one of the "die" revisions that occurred in 1878....They were plaques with problems that required several minor changes in the over all die appearances.
In general, the B1 revers is a 7 tailed feather with
1)parallel arrow feathers
2)the "long" center arrow feather "nock"
3)flat chest on the eagle
4) hook on the eagles beak
5)narrow rim....... the first 3 are enough to place it as a B1 reverse type...
Mike I am only referring to :some of us love to collect vams but don't hold only every one we have, as we can trade those vams or like you said our extra's,or what have you to get other coins we do want to get/collect and keep...
they are commodeities in that some of the rare ones now, may be worth less later as more are discovered...on my budget I will be doing just that so I can hopefully get most of the whole series collected some time in the future..
as they can get quite expensive, I remember trading alot when I was much much younger LOL...
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
I am not familiar with a B1 reverse or the years they occurred.

Could someone give a brief explanation or direct to a site.

Thank you.


This will be somewhat simplified for brevity (as if I could ever be brief ):

The beginning of Morgan dollar production was rather chaotic. The Mint had never tried to produce coins of this size in such huge numbers - the law mandated two million Dollars per month - and troubles were encountered.

The original Morgan die design - the "A" Reverse - had 8 tailfeathers (8TF).

Trying-To-Get-An-Idea-About-B1-Reverse-Collectors....

This was the design used on the very first Morgans struck in 1878. It was anatomically incorrect, and there were other problems, so the design was modified into one with only 7 tailfeathers (7TF, the "B" reverse).

Given the time pressure, some 8TF dies were overstruck with the 7TF design. Traces of the 8TF design were still visible on many of these dies, creating what we call 7/8TF Morgans:

Trying-To-Get-An-Idea-About-B1-Reverse-Collectors....

This is what we call the B1 Reverse, characterized by parallel arrow fletches and a long nock at the end of the arrow shaft. The 7/8TF dies are not referred to as "B1's" to differentiate them from the B1 dies created from scratch - they're considered a separate variety even though the reverse design is the same.

The B1 reverse we're discussing in this thread:

Trying-To-Get-An-Idea-About-B1-Reverse-Collectors....

Further design modifications resulted in the B2 Reverse, where, among other things, the long arrow nock was lost:

Trying-To-Get-An-Idea-About-B1-Reverse-Collectors....

The "final" design version, known as the "C" Reverse, changed the arrow fletches:

Trying-To-Get-An-Idea-About-B1-Reverse-Collectors....

Now, the punchline: All of these changes happened over the course of less than two months in 1878. The Mint was truly scrambling.
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United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list
I look for them but it seems few are around here. I did pick a Vam-84a in mint state last week but it's a later die state and it's hard to pick out the E clash.
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United States
817 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Las_Vegas_Larry to your friends list
You guys are dynamite.

aladinslamp thank you right on.

Thanks SuperDave.
Great pics and explanations.
That should preserved some where in the archives.
That was a lot of effort.

Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2011  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list
I have 1 set missing the VAM-86 and I have 3 others missing the VAM-85,VAM-86 and 4 more missing the VAM-80,VAM-85,VAM-86 all in MS condition. The lowest coin in the collection that is missing only the VAM-86 3 MS-64's, It has 5 MS-65's and 1 MS-64DPL as the other coins in that collection
Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2011  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
1st Thank you Dave, That was Like noted, very time and effort consuming, I am sure. Bryan, THIS is what I was hopeing for, a listed collectors set(s)..... I know you appreciate the B1'S and am glad you posted your thoughts and collection stats,Which I must say, is an amazing feat!! Thanks.......

I would enjoy seeing just what other member/collectors really have, Thanks Mike.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list
I find it fascinating that the 8TF was before the 7/8 and the B1 Reverse but we all know there was one 8TF Morgan that was minted after the B1 Reverse was minted because of the die pairing it has, which leaves one to suspect that they were minting at least all 3 at the same time at the Philadelphia Mint. Not sure about the Rev. of 79 (C Reverse) but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that at least one of the others was being minted along side it also
Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Bryan, I believe you are correct in that while the records indicate one thing, I too believe there will be more "discovery" coins found by the masses searching for just that........As We know some finds are flat out denied by the mint as ever being produced, and the coins keep coming!!! PS, Thanks for sharing the info.
Pillar of the Community
2224 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list
Mike, nice OP, enjoyed the responses and hope you get more answers to it.

Dave, are you a teacher? That was a good concise answer even I understood.

Bryan, congrats on those sets, you must be very proud.

Jim
Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list
Thanks for all the information. I have a handful of Morgans that I have had since I was a kid in the 60's. I have no idea what I have --- so much to learn. I have always wanted to buy some more but I am still learning and I don't think I could tell the difference between a fake or a cleaned coin or whatever...so I am waiting for now. But I am learning a lot here and I thank you all for sharing.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Jim Thanks for your kind words, Buddy, I would suggest you pay attention to the input of other members and by all means, ask questions, you will be fine, there are plenty of VERY experienced people on this forum, as far as Morgans, Bryan and S Dave are what I refer to as resident Specialists, to mention just a few, good luck, Mike..... I love B1'S....
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2011  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
Thanks Mike on this concise point of the 78 series......With over 200, almost nearing 250 ..
the B1 reverse are something one can dial in on as a completion set within the MEGA 1878P series...weather you need the high end MS coins or just to fill the blanks, its a great mini series.....
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