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 Replies: 46 / Views: 6,497 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Thanks to DVCollector I have just agreed to purchase this Augustus AE As, RIC 81. I have already mentioned this in his thread, but wanted to give this its own post. There is nothing spectacular about the coin with one exception: the doors of the alter have four door knobs rather than the usual two (I guess that makes it two exceptions). I cannot find another example like it. I have exhausted all my resources so I need for the rest of you to help. Am I looking for boogeymen or is there something peculiar about this coin? Thanks for taking a look see. Regards, JW  |
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Pillar of the Community
Bulgaria
843 Posts |
This is strange!I saw every Augustus coin in wildwinds.com and there is no the same coin with four door knobs.I will continue and I will reply to the topic if I find something.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I think it's great you found this variety...it's what makes coin collecting exciting!
If I find a match to the reverse, I'll post it here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
Fantastic coin jw! Very nice!
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Nice looking coin - I have no idea about the door knobs though.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I spent a little time doing a google image search...and couldn't find a single coin with the 4 knobs--interesting!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4253 Posts |
I've spent way too much time looking so now I'm in a wait and see mode. Once I get the coin, I will post my pictures and see if they show four vs two. However, the images posted by the seller clearly show four. I know there must be an answer to this. Arggggggg!  Edited by Bing
11/08/2011 5:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
842 Posts |
I have also been looking. I hit up my university library and consulted the books on the subject. I found nothing! Is it possible that this has yet to be documented in any of the major resources?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
You know...there are several cases where 18 C. US coin varieties were not discovered until 80-100 years later.
A very short die run and low survivability rate can easily happen...especially for coins that are over 1500+ years old.
I have a Norway coin from 1687 with a repunched date--I have yet to find the same die pair, anywhere.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Quote:
I have also been looking. I hit up my university library and consulted the books on the subject. I found nothing! Is it possible that this has yet to be documented in any of the major resources? I can only hope that is the case. The other scenario could be this is a fake, and I've been had. It doesn't look fake, but then again, good fakes don't look fake. Until this type of coin came up in another thread, I had no idea the value placed on the type. It could follow that any coin seemed valuable enough has a better chance of being copied. I can only hope and pray you are correct, or this is much ado about nothing. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Hmmm...I'm just wondering why would somebody go to the effort to create such a convincing patina...when it's not a top dollar coin? The labor involved could easily render such a fake unprofitable. I only suspect that not every die pair has survived in large numbers...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Quote:
Hmmm...I'm just wondering why would somebody go to the effort to create such a convincing patina...when it's not a top dollar coin? The labor involved could easily render such a fake unprofitable. I only suspect that not every die pair has survived in large numbers You are probably correct and I see boogeymen behind every tree. However, take a look at this particular coin for sale on Vcoins. There are specimens being sold for as much as $600, so there may be money to be made. The one good thing in my favor is that I haven't seen a glut of this type being sold any where. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote:
The one good thing in my favor is that I haven't seen a glut of this type being sold any where. There's an astute observation! If this coin were fake, it should be turning up on ebay in quantity, and in various grades. Which mint made this? I'm really holding out hope for a scarce die pair!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
It would seem that I have my answer. With the help of others to include Doucet, we have found what we believe to be the reason my coin has four knobs (or dutch doors) when no other can be found. The coin I purchased seems to be tooled and repatinated by a seller who has been accused of this practice in the past. Take a look at the two coins below. The top coin is a coin sold to the person I ultimately bought from. The second image is the coin I purchased.   The flan is identical as well as other aspects of the coins. No other coins with four handles can be found, because the top two handles are merely tooled in and no coin with four handles was ever struck! The fact that four handles seemed out of place was instrumental in beginning an investigation and was important after all and prevented me, if all works out, from adding a tooled coin to my collection. I still have not received the coin, but, when I do, I will be asking for a refund either through the seller, ebay, or Paypal. I would be more than happy to post the seller here, but I would have to contact a moderator to see if that is allowed. This kind of thing makes me furious, It's just plain deceitful on one level, but worse then that it is a blight on this hobby. It needs to be policed, but I have no idea by who. If ebay were to remove these unscrupulous sellers, they would just surface under another name. I guess it's better to know who you're dealing with then to chase them underground. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Wow - well investigated by you both of you, its amazing the lengths people will go to to make a few quid. I bet this was a time consuming activity. Do you know what the difference is between the price he paid and the price you paid for this coin?
If it wasn't for the two extra door knobs we may never have known, I guess this is another case where cleaning crosses the line into restoration. If the seller just stated this in the listing the market could have decided weather the work done to this coin increased or decreased its value. I think the fact that dirt has been re-added to make it look aged is a dead give away the sellers intentions were (whatever he may have to say on the subject) deceitful and motivated by $$$s.
Good spot guys.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
That's an impressive bit of detective work! I was hoping it was a variant, but I'm glad you found the correct reason. Even at that pic size, it's very obvious those two are the same coin. I hope it won't get resold to a unwary collector. |
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Replies: 46 / Views: 6,497 |
Posted 11/07/2011 7:11 pm
