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 Replies: 14 / Views: 10,486 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
677 Posts |
A friend of mine traded a quarter for this coin from a check-out girl at the local supermarket. By looking around the net, it would seem to be a Gros minted by Bohemond VII of Tripoli, and is considered a "Crusader Coin".   I know the quality of my scans is "OK" at best, but it's the best I could do. I can tell you the coin looks like an old silver coin. It also "passes" the "it sounds like silver when dropped on a table test".  The diameter is 24.9mm at the largest point. My scale doesn't measure to tenths of grams, so the best I can say for weight is: about 5 grams. I'm wondering what else I can do to determine whether the coin is authentic or a fake. It seems so crazy that a real coin would end up being spent as a quarter, but I know crazier things have happened. Any help, advice and/or information is greatly appreciated. I would love to tell my friend he bought a valuable coin for 25 cents! Thanks! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
The photo looks like a modern replica. It should be shown, in person, to a dealer specializing in medieval coins. If real, the harsh cleaning would limit its value but I'd not buy it from the photo.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
I don't collect these coins, but looking on Vcoins I found a like coin selling for $300. If genuine, your friend's coin is in excellent condition and should be worth at least $200 based on this link: http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/yorkc...Product=5729That's the best I can do to help. If you have some way to test for silver, it would be helpful. In reading the story of how your friend wound up with this coin, it came to mind a story of something that happened to my F-I-L years ago. His house was burglarized and his coin collection stolen. Many of his coins turned up at local stores where the thieves spent them not knowing what else to do with them. Hopefully that's not the case with this coin. Regardless, if genuine, your friend has found a real deal. Regards, JW |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
677 Posts |
@dougsmit- The coin looks much better in hand than the crappy scans I took, but I was still leaning the same way as you. I found pictures online of authentic coins, and the area that bothers me the most is the "castle" on the back. There doesn't seem to be enough detail in the "windows".
@jwharper- I hadn't thought of dumb thieves being responsible. (if it's authentic) Anything is possible isn't it? I hope for his sake it real, also. Like you said, it would be a real deal!
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The surface is a little porous, but that does not necessarily mean that it was cast. It is possible that poor storage coditions could contribute to it's current surface condition.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Quote:
he surface is a little porous, but that does not necessarily mean that it was cast Porosity is not a determining factor in deciding if a coin is cast. I have a Claudius Denarius that is very porous, but is also very genuine. While I might agree that the detail is not sharp in the OP coin, if it were mine I would like to have an expert take a look as well as test the metal. Silver test kits are inexpensive and easy to find. I'm still hoping this is genuine, so please keep us informed. |
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Moderator
 Australia
16810 Posts |
I have several concerns with this coin, too. It may be just the effect of the scanner, but I think I can see several spots on both sides where the silvering is coming off, revealing coppery-coloured metal underneath. Quote:
My scale doesn't measure to tenths of grams, so the best I can say for weight is: about 5 grams. According to my Crusader States catalogue, the weight should be 4.2 to 4.25 grams; if 5 grams is accurate to the nearest gram, then it seems a bit heavy. Quote:
It also "passes" the "it sounds like silver when dropped on a table test". That, to me, is a red flag. Because mediaeval silver coins are much thinner than their modern counterparts, it should sound completely different to a modern coin of similar size. I have a silver gros of Cyprus, slightly later and heavier than a gros of Tripoli, and it doesn't sound at all like a modern silver coin - it sounds flat and "tinny". Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
677 Posts |
Thanks for the replys everyone.
@Sap: It is the poor quality of the scan. The surface is completely silver. Except for some small tarnished areas.
I'm going to bring it to work with me today. I believe we have a scale that will measure to tenths of a gram. We will see.
As far as me thinking it sounds like silver; I probably shouldn't even have mentioned this as I really don't have enough experience with silver coins to even trust my own opinion on this. Ha-ha. After reading Sap's post, I'm second guessing myself on this. Maybe it does sound "tinny"...
As far as it's porosity...this too seems to be a result of the poor scan. To the eye, the surface is quite smooth.
I'm going to try and find someone local who has some experience with medieval coins. I've never seen my local coin shop sell any, but I'll start there and see what they say about it. Hopefully if they don't know much, they will know someone who does.
Thanks for the help. I will let everyone know how things turn out.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
Well, if nothing else, your local coin shop will be able to weigh the coin and possibly test it for silver content. Good luck
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Pillar of the Community
United States
677 Posts |
Just an update: I finally got the coin into my local coin shop. Like I thought, they don't have much experience with world coins, much less medieval coins. To his credit, he told me that before he even lifted his loupe to his eye. (Both owners a great guys. From stories I've read on here, I know I'm lucky to have trustworthy dealers close by) He said in his opinion the coin just looked "too modern". He weighed it, and it was 4.81 grams. He said that was too big a difference from the number Sap supplied me, and that would say counterfeit. He also said it didn't sound like silver when he dropped it. (this got me thinking about what Sap said about the sound) I asked him about a silver test, but he didn't want to bother because he was so certain it's not. Is there enough evidence to stop and tell my friend he has an interesting fake? Or do I try and find an expert? My coin guy said there are some experts in the next closest city to me. But it's 80 miles away, and I don't relish the idea of driving there just to learn it's fake. And yet, if it's real, it would be worth it.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
With this many people saying fake, chances are that it is. However, I still think you should test it for silver content. Like I said before, the test is very easy and the test kits are cheap. I guess I'm the eternal optimist. I want it to be genuine so I keep my fingers crossed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
677 Posts |
Quote:
With this many people saying fake, chances are that it is. However, I still think you should test it for silver content. Like I said before, the test is very easy and the test kits are cheap. I guess I'm the eternal optimist. I want it to be genuine so I keep my fingers crossed. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'm thinking it's a fake as well. (And have since the beginning) But like you, my glass is always half full!  I'll try and get a hold of a silver test kit. Thanks for the crossed fingers, jwharper! And thanks to everybody for the info and advice. If (against all odds) it's real, I'll let you know. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
a real one...  |
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
Gee, for a minute I thought some of our old members were returning, than I saw the date. This thread is a blast from the past.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
I realized that when I made the post...Haha.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 10,486 |
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Posted 12/29/2011 8:55 pm
