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Help With Grading Of Shilling's And Half Crown Please.

 
 
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  5:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
1944 George VI One Shilling




1944 George VI Half Crown




1895 Victoria One Shilling




I feel my pictures don't do them justice as the detail is very nice :), and on the Half Crown on the reverse there is a spec of dirt on the harp but that is not on the coin itself. Apparently my scanner is littered with specs of dust or dirt, I'm going to put in the washing machine.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
150 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic biz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Geo VI shill H Crown borderline AU (about UNC)
both would look better if dipped.

Vic Shill GVF


yours

michael
Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
0-0 These are high grades :o , and please could you tell me what is dipping? I get the concept of dipping lol, but not in a coin context like mentioned?
Edited by awallin01
03/26/2014 6:22 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can I also ask what brings the Victoria coin lower than the other two? Is it the toning?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These coins look very nice the way they are - please do not suggest dipping them without also mentioning that it's completely frowned upon to do so.

Dipping is cleaning a coin - it shines it up nice and "pretty" (not really) with a chemical liquid you 'dip' it into. It also removes surface metal from the coin and removes any remaining mint luster. Collectors do not like dipped coins, and believe me, they will be able to tell.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Can I also ask what brings the Victoria coin lower than the other two? Is it the toning?


Toning does not bring down a coin's grade - wear does. A coin can be uncirculated and still have a lot of toning. Toned coins can be quite beautiful, and can add character to an otherwise blast-white coin. Some collectors prefer toned coins, while some prefer white - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And while dipping, or other cleaning methods, will remove toning, it can also make a coin look flat and dull. Cleaning a coin will remove most of the value of a collectible coin.

I'd suggest trying to get pictures with a camera. A scanner doesn't capture luster or small details very well. We have a large photography section here if you would like some pointers
Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No worries had no intention of cleaning them, just wasn't sure what dipping meant. I like the condition, it's like a matte finish :). And on the Victoria the toning is golden-ish. doesn't come well on my pictures :(. I've learnt many things on CCF and cleaning is a no no, after I made a prior error of removing some fingerprints with a dry cloth (hand to face).

xshift Can I ask why the Victoria is a lower grade? I'm trying to gain more knowledge on here, but am not sure why it's not on par with the other two? The colouring on it is toning, not dirt from circulation.

Edit: Sorry didn't see the other reply, and wrote the above. I have a pretty decent camera, I'll start using it. I use the scanner out of laziness lol. Works against, a little more effort get's a lot more. Thank-you very much for the advice and help.It's getting a little late here for photography, I'll re-upload camera pictures tomorrow :).
Edited by awallin01
03/26/2014 7:10 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
52 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greg8904 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeaa dont clean ha. Was at at a market the ither day..thete was a really nuce silver half crown and a guy instantly said..its polished isn't it? Found it amusing..he didnt buy based on the fact it was polished.wgat are the tricks to spotting a cleaned/polished coin,
Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Greg a few things would be fine scratches on the surface of a coin, indicative of a cloth cleaning. Also if a coin shows wear, but is very clean-that would indicate any natural build on the coin was removed. Now with coin companies and grading/slabbing, I'm pretty sure they have ways of telling if certain chemicals were used on coins and that would fail to get the coin graded. I'm sure there are loads more indicators aswell, but these are some I've heard of or seen.
Valued Member
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2014  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The key to better understanding of both grading and detecting cleaned coins is to look at a lot of coins. When I first began studying coins I remember rolling my eyes upon constantly hearing that answer to my questions, but it really is the only way.

If you pickup a coin at a show and hold it under an incandescent lamp and rotate the coin as you simultaneously tilt it back and forth you will see luster rolling brilliantly around the surfaces on an uncirculated coin. On a coin which is polished or whizzed you will see a flat shiny surface when looking at the coin, but upon rotating/tilting it you will ...still just see a flat shiny surface. No true luster will roll across the surface.

For circulated coins, if you compare some unaltered coins with some of the same type that have been cleaned you will begin to spot clues. For example, a coin may have detail/wear commensurate with a VF grade, but in recessed areas where you might expect some dirt or toning it may be oddly bright or smooth.

Obviously there are many variations and the above description is not all encompassing. I highly recommend attending a coin show (or ten) where you can examine many coins in a single day. Compare coins of the same issue/type and of many different sizes and metal compositions. Think on the differences you see. Study a book on grading before you go to the next show and, in time, you'll begin to get the hang of it.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1351 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add peter1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are all about GF to NVF max.
Unless my eye sight has failed.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree (broadly) with Peter (sorry if that disappoints) - NVF-VF for the Georges, GF to NVF for the Viccy (Britsh grading standards).

For comparison is this very high grade 1895 shilling (aUNC IMO)- it should serve to emphasise the general wear visible on your coin. Compare in particular the hair and necklace pearls on the obverse, and the crispness of detail in the shields on the reverse:

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Edited by Paulus
03/28/2014 4:41 pm
Valued Member
United Kingdom
450 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My bad I still haven't uploaded new photos, I'm waiting til tomorrow to set up for some higher quality photos. I'm after opinions from people who know there stuff, and can only agree :).

The scans I took are not the best though, the necklace is alot more detailed then the scan shows and in the scan it doesn't show the star badge on Victoria & the same with the hair. I tried a bit of coin photography out yesterday, and my results were amateur. I'm going to build an axial photography set-up tomorrow. And then spend some time perfecting photography of coins-at least to a point where they show what I see lol.

Many thanks for all the input, I take everything on board. And I didn't pay high prices, so I'm happy either way :). The worrying thing is, I used scanned images for my other coins-and ones I sold :(. Lighting is key, as is good photography. :)
Valued Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are absolutely right, in my opinion, good pics are key when selling coins! Most eBay sellers, some dealers and some auction houses (and TPGs) are appalling at this.
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