Reale Or Counterfeit? - 8 Reales 1783 Shipwreck Coin

I know Bob Gurney can expound on this coin better than I can but I would recommend if you have not done this already buy the Counterfeit 8 Reales Book at Amazon by Gurney, Nichols and myself. This will help in future self-evaluations and the 600 page book is only $40.00. It also comes with an optional 2-CD-pack for $25.00 from Bob at North Carolina illustrating all the coins in the book with greater clarity and zoom features. Anyway - enough -advertsing <BG>. I have never come across a bad 1783 for this shipwreck year. Surface features are tough on these salt water corroded coins to determine possible modern forgery. I have seen other years being sold as shipwreck pieces but were actually high tin (~98%)/Low antimony (~1%) issues and were low weight at 20-23 grams generally. These may have or have not the 180* degree required colonial edge overlaps. Check your coin. So if the weight is in around 26.5 grams (i.e., since there seems to be little salt water corrosion effect on all motifs in your illustrated example) and the overlaps are there IMO its proably genuine (100% of the time). If you are unsure what 180* overlaps are - please buy the book.What is interesting on most salt water effected pieces is surface XRF reading CAN approach 99% as most of the copper and some of the lead has leached out making the pieces EVEN higher than sterling levels even accounting for silver surface enrichment factors.

John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States
GNL Book Co-Author

The edge of the coin displays some similarities to recently made cast copies of El Cazador 8Rs and areas of the coin that may rise higher than the original fields can also pose some problems.

That said - the value that attaches to El Cazador coins is the provenance of the shipwreck. That is their primary value. As coins they are hideous. Since this coin comes with NO CERTIFICATE of authenticity - I would not pay more than silver melt for it.

There is absolutely no way to prove where this coin came from or when it was actually made.

SG and XRF tests (with the exception of a gold check) would unlikely be of great value in this case. Porosity makes SG inaccurate and sea water erodes most metals while depositing unwanted trace contaminants. Fortunately GOLD does not erode in seawater and therefore an XRF test should show gold as being present at a higher than anticipated level. XRF would at least eliminate the chance of a modern fake made with new silver. XRF would NOT ELIMINATE the possibility of a modern cast copy made with salvaged silver from El Cazador or any other pre 1830 wreck. No test could prove the coin was genuine.

Spending $40 to XRF test this coin is not what I would do.

Call it El Cazador if you wish because the value is minimal and Proof of a forgery would cost more than the coin is worth. However, if and when you sell it you should make NO CLAIM to authenticity at all.