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Seeking Advice On Authenticity Of Mexican Pillar Dollar 1770

 
 
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New Member

Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2015  04:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JO3023 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi everyone,

This will be my first post in this forum. Hopefully the first of many. I discovered that I already know some you from other forums and/or Facebook. My first topic concerns a pillar dollar which does not belong to me but to a friend. All in all I have 3 Mexican pillar dollars in my collection so you can safely assume I am no expert in this type of coins. Seeing my friend's pillar dollar I have some doubts. The coin seems genuine. However I do have doubts about the edge. Hopefully some of you with more knowledge about these coins can shed some light on its authenticity.













Hopefully I can give my friend some good news. If not it will be a good learning lesson for both him and me.

Thank you in advance for any comments.
JO3023
Edited by JO3023
02/24/2015 12:38 pm
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2015  04:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JO3023 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Weight of the pillar dollar by the way is correct (26,93 g) as is its diameter (39+ mm)

Regards,
JO3023
Pillar of the Community
United States
3930 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2015  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First off, welcome.

Far from an expert myself (there are certainly some here who will undoubtedly shed light on the nature of your specimen), but what I immediately notice is the extensive cavitation associated with this edge. To me, that's suggestive of a casting. I don't believe the pattern there is correct, either.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
02/24/2015 2:01 pm
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2015  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JO3023 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Lucky Cuss for your opinion which is very much appreciated.

Regards,
JO3023
Pillar of the Community
United States
4861 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2015  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 8 reales of 1770 from Mexico City are noted for the flat and wide dentil row at the coins' perimeter. They DO NOT have raised rims caused by post strike application of the edge detail.

This coin appears to be a cast copy which was edged AFTER it was cast to cover an edge seam.

Also the condition of the edge does not match the condition of the surfaces of the coin. The reason is simple - they do not belong together and that combined with the raised rim proves at least to me that I need go no further - the coin is a modern Numismatic Forgery (Class 3). The value is near melt. Density (specific gravity) can be used for the rough alloy.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2015  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PatAR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forums.

I must agree with others that this coin is not authentic. The surfaces do not appear as they would on an authentic coin. Likewise, the edge design has an appearance that quickly distinguishes it as not genuine after you've seen a good number of authentic examples.



New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2015  03:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JO3023 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank's a lot swamperbob and PatAR for your comments. I learned a lot from the comments made in the post http://goccf.com/t/133160&whichpage=1

I could see the wavy rim observed on pillar dollars where the edge was struck a posteriori whilst according to the information I read after 1756 the edge was struck a priori. On the other hand the pillar dollars shown in http://www.columnarios.com/catalog_mo_8r.htm contradict this to a certain extent as I see before 1756 pillar dollars of which the edge according to me was struck a priori and after 1756 pillar dollars of which the edge was struck a posteriori.

Anyway I thought the design of the laurel leaves on the rim of this particular coin odd looking.

Thanks again for your comments.

Regards,
JO3023
Pillar of the Community
United States
4861 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2015  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JO3023 You should not use 1756 as an absolute date. Not all edges before 1756 were applied post strike and not all edges after 1756 were pre-strike. Gilboy uses the date as a convenient dividing line when the "normal" method had changed. The further from 1756 you go the more absolute the edge application method becomes.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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