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Theories And Questions On Woodie Cents.

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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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6478 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2015  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm completely wrong.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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5964 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2015  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you miss my major traildie? You don't have to bump, but would like you to see it.
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/21/2015  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's crazy. I learned about how the trails are made too. Awesome find.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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5964 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2015  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah pretty neat huh. I like it a lot. Back to this one though, these "Stripies" the modern day Woodiies. They are not improperly mixed alloys. They are clads. They often are a little different in color. The mystery is why?
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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 Posted 09/21/2015  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We know improper annealing often causes color change. With the Stripies, the color change is more frequent. Why?
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 09/21/2015  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, here is the plan. I'm going to get a job at one of the mints. I'm going to work my way up to top man of the mint/master engraver or whatever, I'm going to watch the entire minting process until I eventually catch a batch that has the stripes, and see what step they appeared in, then I am going to do more research and see what caused it!
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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5964 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2015  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool, that will work. It might take a little while though. A few posts back you said you'd have it in a minute. lol. I gotta go now Kid. As always, good talking to you.
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2015  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It will take a while. But it will work. Lol. See ya. Ill cook up some ideas backed by fact.
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 Posted 09/22/2015  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The gray and brown color of the aberrantly-colored stripies is superficial, even in clad coins. I did scrape the rim of the brown stripie dime whose image I posted earlier. It's the normal color of copper-nickel.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2015  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So its applied to the coin due to some obscure mystery process during the minting of the coin. We now know its not part of the metal.
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CoinMasters's Avatar
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5964 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2015  01:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
I don't believe the narrow, closely-spaced stripes reflect a poorly mixed alloy for several reasons. First, you see them in clad coins, and clad layers don't seem very prone to this sort of error. Second, the stripes appear to be quite superficial in that you can see that they're worn through on more heavily circulated specimens.

One of the biggest mysteries, at least when it comes to nickels and clad coins, is their frequent association with a gray or brown coloration. There's no reason why mint discoloration (whether from improper annealing or some other cause) should have any association with rolling marks.

Mike, in an attempt to be constructive, my opinion has evolved as follows: I think both the narrow and wide stripes are caused by insufficiently and/or improportionately mixed alloys. I believe the wider stripes are more insufficiently mixed than the narrow ones, and are thicker in volume as well. I believe this for a couple of reasons.
First, I believe one sees the narrow stripes in clad coins because the clad layers are less prone to this error (enough that the stripes are not wide). Second, I believe the narrow stripes appear as "superficial" when the coin is worn, because they are thinner by volume than the more poorly mixed wide stripes.
When it comes to nickels and clad coins with stripes, I think their frequent association with a gray or brown color is a direct result of an improperly mixed alloy of a different combination of metals than that of cents.
Mike, you are certainly at the top of your profession, so I just thought I'd offer an "other side of the coin" from a relative layman's perspective. JMO
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SilverStackerKid's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2015  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverStackerKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought everything you just said too. Very nice!
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GSDykes's Avatar
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95 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2015  03:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GSDykes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As for clad coins, the stripes may come from the rolling process wherein the 3 layers are pressure joined. They are literally fused. The Cu layer is in the center with the two outer layers being the CuNi. I agree that the lines probably come from this rolling, process, in which great pressure is exerted. The direction of the lines may follow the direction of the sheets (film) as they move along the pressure rollers. Are they then annealed before striking? I know that the pressure bonds are enhanced by first roughing the surfaces of each metal coil/roll. Anyways, if they are annealed after the cladding step, then this may help explain. Too, it is possible that when rolled, the copper cores (coil) may "swell" up into the outer layers, enough to color it, especially if the roller is not 1000% smooth?
Edited by GSDykes
09/23/2015 04:00 am
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GSDykes's Avatar
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95 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2015  04:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GSDykes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just read that during the reduction process the metals are intermittently annealed! This was stated in a volume on "Explosive Welding" by Chapman. Though this cladding process is not explosive welding, it is a pressure fusion, being cold rolled under great pressure. Also this patent explains some of the cladding/annealing processes.

http://www.google.com/patents/US3381364

patent # US3381364
Edited by GSDykes
09/23/2015 04:26 am
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 Posted 09/23/2015  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I now suspect that brown and gray-colored stripies found in nickels and clad coins are the result of both rolling and improper annealing. I suspect that the elevated temperatures of the annealing oven somehow bring out the striped pattern that is already latent in the surface metal. This conjecture would explain the greater-than-random association of stripes with discoloration and the uniform discoloration of the coins' edges.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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