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One More Time...vietnam Coins ?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 2,351Next Topic  
Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2015  12:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

someone delete my topics so again anyone know that coins ?



1.






2.






3.







4.








5.







6.





Pillar of the Community
United States
6365 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2015  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
#2 is a "Hong Hi Thong Bao"

#3 is a "Thien Thuan Thong Bao"

#4 is a Vietnamese "Gia Long Thong Bao" cast from 1802-1819.

#5 is a Vietnamese "Canh Hung Thong Bao" cast from 1740-1787

#1 could be Vietnamese, but I could be Korean (my guess) or Japanese. I am 99% sure it is not Chinese.

#6 looks Japanese.
Valued Member
United States
347 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2015  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manymore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
#1 Vietnam: phat phap tang bao cast in 1517. The coin is discussed in Chinese here. A coin with an English description can be seen here.

#2 China: hong xi tong bao cast in 1425. According to the Baidu online encyclopedia, there are only two of these coins known to exist. One is in the collection of the National Museum of China and the other coin's location is unknown. There are serious questions whether either coin is authentic.

#3 China: tian shun tong bao. According to this Chinese article, all of these coins are fakes. A specimen may be seen here.

#4 Vietnam: gia long thong bao cast 1802-1819.

#5 Vietnam: gia hung thong bao cast in 1796. See #040 at this website.

#6 China: jian wen tong bao. According to the Baidu Encyclopedia, there are serious questions whether any of these coins are authentic.

I am not familiar with Vietnamese coins and am unable to authenticate them.

However, the Chinese coins are fakes.

Gary

Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2015  07:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought them on Stephen album rare coins auction, and I didnt know that they selling fakes. : /
Pillar of the Community
United States
6365 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2015  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just keep them and attribute them. They are still collectable and worth a fair amount.

But I'm surprized that Stephen Album would have put such coins in a lot. Likely he didn't know, or no one on him team is experienced with Vietnamese cash coins. They may have assumed they were Vietnamese because reference guides for Chinese coins would not have had them listed.

I like them and I think they are cool.

They looked genuine to me, and they could very well be real, but I would defer to Manymore's judgement.
Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2015  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coins are from this one:


Stephen Album Rare Coins
Auction 20 18-20 September 2014

Lot 2974

WORLDWIDE:LOT of 27 cash coins of various countries, Bantam tin cash with Javanese script (1), Annam including some better types (6), Japan H-25.62 Yuan Feng type possible bosen or 'mother coin' plus two Kanei Tsuho types (3), Indonesia lead/tin cash with Chinese inscription (3), Korea early cash H-25.73 Choson tong bo type (1), Kelantan collection of four different type tin pitis (4), Hong Kong 1 mil coins of Victoria with one in AU condition (5), group of four misc. coins (4), average circulated quality, retail value $250, lot of 27 items, ex Nicholas Rhodes Collection.
Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2016  03:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got some answer from Stephen Album:


"If you can return the whole lot (all 27 coins) we will provide a refund.

Looking at the photos, we are not certain that the gentleman is correct that the coins are fake.

Best Regards,
Mike Barry"



hmm so if not fake, so what they are ?
Edited by geraltttt82
06/02/2016 03:58 am
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
16367 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2016  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@geraltttt82, I cannot comment on whether these coins are fakes or not as it is outside my area of expertise, but I can say that I have been very satisfied with my purchases from Stephen Album.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2016  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im also not an expert in asian coins... thats why I believe to the big auction houses for example Stephen Album, that theirs experts dont allow to sell fakes. So I was suprised when here and on numista, few members said that 3 of these coins are fakes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
6365 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2016  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would keep them. Contact Scott Semans or Bob Reis as they could put you through to Roger Doo. He is the authenticator for these two dealers as he was the curator of the Shanghai Museum's numismatic collection..
Valued Member
Poland
309 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2016  06:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank You TypeCoin971793. I wrote to Mr Scott Semans and he will try to help me a little with these coins.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
971 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2016  04:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I asked another expert (bgriff99) on the subject and received the following (with thanks!) -


Quote:
A deemed-genuine Ming Hong Xi exists, very rare, and this isn't it. It also exists as a small coin made at Hatien, Vietnam, again rare, and I have not even seen a rubbing. But I know what the calligraphy should be and this isn't it. This coin is an old fantasy made by character substitution to a Hong Wu. It is listed in the fake section of Ding Fubao, page 219. Schjoth 1168 is a different fantasy. His 1169 is probably the Hatien coin.

A genuine Ming Tian Shun is not believed to exist at all. It does exist in two sizes issued by Hatien, both scarce. This coin is not one of those (it would be worth more if it was). It is made by character substitution (and recasting) to a Tian Qi cash.

Likewise no genuine Ming Jian Wen exists. A small Hatien cash has the inscription, is relatively common (I have it), but this isn't it. This coin is a complete fabrication from scratch. It is quite close to Schjoth 1164, so either is the same fantasy coin as drawn there, or copied from its picture somewhere.
Edited by andyg
06/04/2016 04:41 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
6365 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2016  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could you ask what kind of time frome these fakes were made? I'm concerned because the patina looks unbelievably real, with the exception of the Jian Wen.
Edited by TypeCoin971793
06/04/2016 08:24 am
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