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1905 Indian Cent Double Struck Naturally Toned?

 
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 Posted 03/01/2016  1:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mamastinky to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just purchased this 1905 IHC on eBay. It was advertised as NT, and with double-struck reverse, which is what finally sold me (or, more truthfully, pulled my impulse trigger). I am building a high-grade toned IHC collection still in its infancy, and I am new to IHC, fairly. We have my husband's book of low-grade cents, but that bores me.

So, when this coin came in the mail yesterday, at first glance I immediately had second thoughts about the circumstances and origins of those bright hues. At the moment, there is a tie between each side of the argument in my head. 50/50, flip of a coin.. it is AT... no it's NT... I am becoming aware lately, IHCs are a different ballpark from, say, LWCs in spite of the fact that they are identical in composition. Which puzzles the heck out of me.

Indian cents exhibit colors like this often enough, right? If this is Artificially toned, I do not want it. If it is indeterminate, I may decide to keep it, maybe. Anyone feeling especially confident about this one?



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 Posted 03/01/2016  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is neither double struck nor naturally toned. It is a chemically AT'ed mess and while it does display Longacre Doubling on the reverse, that is part of the design and not an error or variety. It is also worth noting that you cannot double strike a coin on only one side.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope the seller did not call it UNC because it is clearly a circulated coin.

Definitely AT and not double-struck.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is also worth noting that you cannot double strike a coin on only one side.


Right?!?! I thought I was missing something, there, since I could see a scenario in which a double-struck coin could possibly exhibit doubling on the obverse only, but the reverse... how?

When I asked the seller today how she knows it is NT, while I did get a reply, the question wasn't actually answered, so I rephrased and the conversation seems stuck there. My first instinct was the right one in this case. Thanks, family. I feel much better.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lets just hope you can return this XF-details Indian Head cent. You can see the cleaning on the wreath.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, AT for sure. Just shelf doubling on the reverse.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way -



to CCF.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Splotchy toning = AT.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We have my husband's book of low-grade cents, but that bores me.


Awesome!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 03/01/2016  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To bad it was messed with. It WAS a nice coin.
just carl
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 Posted 03/01/2016  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% artificial. Certainly not double struck. Send it back :P

Helpful advice: If you want to put together a set of high-grade Indian Head cents, do a lot of research. Learn and examine what natural, unaltered high grade cents look like, and how to distinguish authentic coins from fakes.

The better educated you are when it comes to this series, the less likely you are to get burned with expensive mistakes, especially when you start getting into keys and semi-keys such as the 1866-1878 run and the 08/09 S mints, where mistakes can wipe out a few hundred bucks in no time.

JMHO. Good luck collecting & please be sure to share all the pictures!!
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
03/01/2016 11:11 pm
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 Posted 03/02/2016  02:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you want to put together a set of high-grade Indian Head cents, do a lot of research. Learn and examine what natural, unaltered high grade cents look like, and how to distinguish authentic coins from fakes.


I agree. I have Robec's Images bookmarked in my browser simply because I like looking at the pictures. I realize now that what I should do is become equally intimate with images of AT coins.


Quote:
The better educated you are when it comes to this series, the less likely you are to get burned with expensive mistakes, especially when you start getting into keys and semi-keys such as the 1866-1878 run and the 08/09 S mints, where mistakes can wipe out a few hundred bucks in no time.


So true. I am just now realizing lately how little I actually know about IHCs. Now that I started getting them in my commissions, my hand is forced because I simply don't list an item without understanding all I can about it, you know. Actually, I ran into the coin above while doing market research for 1905. (Even so, I still got mixed up and ended up adding "fancy 5" to the 1905 title because I also had an 1865. I still have a loooot to learn!)

I would never have purchased this rainbow cent if the seller had a no return policy. Still, I admit that it is a risky practice to take leaps of faith with unfamiliar sellers on the internet.

The biggest epiphany I had today: To the unitiated, a uniquely toned coin is simply that, colorful; whether AT or NT, it all might as well be the same thing if you can't ever tell one from the other. It is pretty much exactly like cleaned coins. The only reason I instantly recognize a cleaned coin is... I have inspected so many. So it is for collectors learning about AT.
Edited by mamastinky
03/02/2016 02:15 am
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 Posted 03/02/2016  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is also worth noting that you cannot double strike a coin on only one side.

You can but it is unusual. Double struck in collar with rotation of the hammer die between strikes. The struck coin remains seated in the anvil die and so doesn't show the second strike while the hammer side shows both primary and secondary strikes.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 03/02/2016  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like you're off to a "flying" start :P

Keep the pictures coming with your acquisitions.

Indian Head cents, as a rule, do not tone in the same way that Morgan dollars do...
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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