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Cashless Sweden And Coin Collecting

 
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Valued Member

Canada
198 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2016  8:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add OttawaVoyageur to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Anyone from Sweden?
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ading-europe

Would you say numismatics is a dying hobby?

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United States
76103 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2016  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I split this from the six year old post you resurrected. It can stand on its own.
Pillar of the Community
United States
944 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2016  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdiablo30 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kind of ironic,I am 27 and I've had a few CC's before,havent had one in a few years as I just didn't see a need for it,but that has changed. When I go to the casino and win anything over 2k they want a credit card as a second form of id. So I finally ended up snagging one as I noticed ever more that people don't even want to be bothered with cash. I still believe cash is king,but it is slowly fading away as people would rather just have the ability to pay with their phone,card etc.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7385 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2016  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We do have a few Swedish fish roaming these waters. I can't think of their handles off-hand though but I know there's a list somewhere around here. Maybe jbuck can ping a couple of em
Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2016  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live right next door and visit Sweden frequently due to harryhandel and work.

To be honest, I think the article is a bit inflated as it should also 'sell' the newspaper. I do know a lot of places which still have ATMs, and I haven't been refused a single cash transaction anywhere, ever. Scandinavian banks in general (also Danish and Norwegian) try to reduce the amount of cash as much as possible, as cash 'costs' them money and virtual money can all be fixed with self service tools on websites and apps. These are heftily being promoted and used, also because, for example, using an ATM costs you money: 10 or 20 kroner per transaction, just to discourage you. Plus an extra fee for the use of your card in ATMs at the end of the month, of course. A lot of people here take out some extra cash when shopping groceries, for example, as it's still 'free' then. It's called 'bank in butikk', or 'bank in shop'.

Sweden has just introduced a new series of coins and banknotes and has done that in such a harsh way and with such idiotic denominations that cash use is generally discouraged. I do know quite a few places and quite a few people who still prefer cash, though. Even for something simple as grabbing a shopping cart I will need a 10 kronor piece to unlock it.

We will not become totally cashless here any time soon, I guess, just like the paperless office never came into existence: it was announced, it was seen as the future and I still ended up with piles on my desk, many years later. Now if those piles can be piles of banknotes, though...
Valued Member
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2016  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Afab67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know there are those beating the "cashless" drum, even in the United States. I just do not see that happening. So many transactions all over the world rely on cash and the public still demands it in a big way.

However, I do worry about the future of coin collecting. As most of the world coins being printed for circulation are purely "blah" in their appearance (in my humble opinion)and the young are getting more used to using debit cards, the desire for coin collecting might well slip as time goes on. Given the fact that the baby boomers look like they are starting to sell off their collections and/or bequeathing them to offspring (who promptly sell the collection) also does not bode well.

And lastly, and I have to say this, I have run into too many dealers who are unpleasant to deal with. They are neither welcoming, nor accommodating, and they tend to overprice their wares. I know there are nice, helpful dealers out there, but I am finding too few of them.

Don't mean to ruffle any feathers with this post, but I do feel some concern about the hobby. To be honest though, it hasn't stopped my collecting. I turn 50 next year, so I'm not sure where that places me.
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United States
76103 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2016  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
just like the paperless office never came into existence
A good analogy.

I have tried my best in the last couple of years to reduce my paper consumption. I often tell cashiers to keep the receipt since I already see it on my phone before they can even print it. I get no bills in the mail, all of it is via e-mail notification (and secure PDF download). I keep my own electronic copies for my records. On the rare occasions I get something on paper that I need to keep, I scan it to PDF then shred.

But it is true, we are not there yet. Although I use my phone and CC for payments more and more, there are still things that need cash and I cannot see them going electronic any time soon.
Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2016  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buzz Killington to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The idea of putting a stamp on a letter is still more foreign than the idea of using a coin to buy something, but the gap is closing. And it is worrisome for the future of the hobby.

Who is going to want to hoard all of the circulated wheat cents sitting around in bags in the next few generations? (For example.) Or even the heavily circulated Indian cents? There are many more categories of all coins that will continue to decline. Hence, it is important not to forget this is a hobby, not a viable investment strategy.

Have fun!
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United States
76103 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hence, it is important not to forget this is a hobby, not a viable investment strategy.
Well said.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18416 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been saying something like this for a long time. I seldom ever use cash. My Son has his own business and never uses cash since he can use all those credit card receipts for tax info. The necessity for cash is vanishing daily. Even toll roads are pressing people to use a digital device instead of cash. Every store I go to and even gas stations prefer plastic. Less errors at the cash register if cash is not involved. It may take a while yet but eventually everyone will just not be able to use cash. For numismatics it will sort of become like collecting oil paintings. Only what was made a while back will be collected.
just carl
Valued Member
United States
282 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add syeb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't agree that if coins go out of style coin collecting will as well. In fact it may be just the opposite as coins become seen as true antiques rather than just units of exchange with some being older than others.
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United States
76103 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't agree that if coins go out of style coin collecting will as well. In fact it may be just the opposite as coins become seen as true antiques rather than just units of exchange with some being older than others.
Well said.

Another article...

Cash is king for how long?
Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually read a (paper!) newspaper today on my flight from China back to Europe and it contained an interesting article on this issue. I forgot the name of the newspaper, but it was aimed at expats and foreigners interested in doing business with mainland China.

The article had the same kind of content as the 'cashless Sweden' article. They had some interesting yet worrying statistics on how youngsters (18-25) leave their front door: apparently one in five young Chinese in the bigger cities like Shanghai and Beijing don't have cash with them anymore and rely on apps and cards. For the generation above (25-35) it's about one in twelve.

There also was a huge article about antiques (now that we've mentioned that topic, too, in this context!) and apparently the Chinese antiques market is currently completely down, after it started declining in 2014: a lot of dealers are out of business and prices are low. So this would be the perfect opportunity to get some (if you manage to get it legally out of the country, of course).

In addition to the article about Sweden: I wonder why only Sweden is mentioned. It's exactly the same in Norway and Denmark.

The Netherlands already had a 'total cashless solution' ready for over 20 years ago: 'pin' for payments over 5 gulden (or about $2.50), 'chipknip' for all smaller expenses: both were on the same card (magnetic stripe for pin, chip for chipknip). It's just that the total audience refused to go completely cashless that it didn't work out. Only pin worked and still works pretty good, as a lot of people don't like to go around with large sums of cash.

So yes, I stand my ground and I keep believing in a not totally cashless society!
Valued Member
United States
282 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add syeb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is the Chinese antique market down because no one knows what is real and what is counterfeit anymore? I can see that as potentially the biggest threat to the coin collecting hobby as well.
Edited by syeb
08/16/2016 4:01 pm
Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's one of the reasons mentioned. Another is that the supplies apparently dry up: the 'diggers' who went all over the country to find new stuff don't find anything new anymore and a lot of stuff turns out to be much less exclusive than thought (the silver hair needle was given as sample. Those go for junk value now, even if hundreds of years old). I guess that also stricter export rules in mainland China don't really help.
Valued Member
United States
282 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2016  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add syeb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Who needs diggers, just make a few thousand more.

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