Posted 08/21/2016 11:35 pm
I could answer your question directly - it is a modern numismatic forgery - but I presume you would really like to know the answer to the question:
If you understand a few key concepts you will be able to tell for yourself with a minimum of research.
To determine the answer to the question - you need to address a series of questions that many collectors simply overlook.
First when did the coin actually circulate and how were originals made?
Second how was the copy made and how close to the correct design was used?
Finally you assess the data to determine if the coin COULD be contemporary.
The dates of circulation are the limits of when a contemporary circulating counterfeit would have been made. That is because a counterfeiter making coins for circulation does not make coins that are NOT CIRCULATING. Most counterfeits are actually common coins and they are rarely mint state. The counterfeiter does not want the coins to attract too much attention.
If you know when a counterfeit had to be made (latest possible date) - you can determine what methods were available to the counterfeiter at that time. That is because NO TECHNOLOGY could have been used before it was actually invented.
To illustrate those points, consider a Sheffield Plate counterfeit of any coin that ceased to circulate in 1700. That copy has to be a numismatic forgery because Sheffield plate was not invented until 1770. If the coin did not circulate after 1770 it is impossible for a Sheffield counterfeit to be a "contemporary circulating counterfeit". If the coin copied was commonly seen in circulation any time after 1780 - then the conclusion is that a Sheffield plate copy COULD BE CONTEMPORARY. Then you can move on in the process. Remember any impossible conclusion forces an answer.
So understanding the history of technological innovations is the key to my approach.
Examples: Silver Electroplating did not begin before 1844.
Electro-typing was not possible before 1840.
Casting using Computer assisted engraving 1980.
Centrifugal casting 20th century
Casting is an old technology but before about 1830 fine grained molding materials were very limited. Therefore very grainy looking cast copies could have been made before 1830 but extremely clear copies indicates a later method like plastic casting which could not have been used in 1830.
So about your coin: First the coin was made during the period 1590 to 1611 or so. It is a roller strike - not a screw press strike. It was silver and it was a Thaler. So 20 grams seems extremely underweight for the standard thaler. It would have attracted attention being very underweight. It should be similar to a dollar. Next I note the design of the coin is quite faithful to originals. It appears to be copied (accurately) from a genuine coin. Finally the coin is rare and sells for several thousands of dollars. Points toward modern forgery.
Your coin has traits of roller strikes in the design - the slight doubling along one edge caused by the coin stretching between strikes. At the same time it also looks cast. There are very poor surfaces (fields) covered with small bumps. I believe it is a cast copy of a genuine coin or a mold produced by copying a photograph and then touching up the mold. This rules out contemporary.
So in say 1608 how would a forger have made a copy? Probably casting or hand hammering. To make a cast copy he would have cast a copy of a coin with green sand or clay or he would have hand engraved a mold. The coin itself would be a gravity pour. In the case of hammering the counterfeiter would need to engrave metal dies by hand. There was absolutely no technology that could replicate dies from a coin in 1608. The design is simply too well done.
The coin as presented is a coin that could not have been made in 1608. The process of manufacture is much newer. The coin is too rare to believe it is contemporary.
There is NO alternative to NUMISMATIC FORGERY.
I realize that the explanation in this case has been lengthy but it illustrates a process that can be used with any coin made at any time. Try to find something that could not have happened that way and you have a MODERN worthless forgery.
Quote:
"How do you tell if a copy is Contemporary (circulating) or Numismatic (intended to deceive collectors)?"
"How do you tell if a copy is Contemporary (circulating) or Numismatic (intended to deceive collectors)?"
If you understand a few key concepts you will be able to tell for yourself with a minimum of research.
To determine the answer to the question - you need to address a series of questions that many collectors simply overlook.
First when did the coin actually circulate and how were originals made?
Second how was the copy made and how close to the correct design was used?
Finally you assess the data to determine if the coin COULD be contemporary.
The dates of circulation are the limits of when a contemporary circulating counterfeit would have been made. That is because a counterfeiter making coins for circulation does not make coins that are NOT CIRCULATING. Most counterfeits are actually common coins and they are rarely mint state. The counterfeiter does not want the coins to attract too much attention.
If you know when a counterfeit had to be made (latest possible date) - you can determine what methods were available to the counterfeiter at that time. That is because NO TECHNOLOGY could have been used before it was actually invented.
To illustrate those points, consider a Sheffield Plate counterfeit of any coin that ceased to circulate in 1700. That copy has to be a numismatic forgery because Sheffield plate was not invented until 1770. If the coin did not circulate after 1770 it is impossible for a Sheffield counterfeit to be a "contemporary circulating counterfeit". If the coin copied was commonly seen in circulation any time after 1780 - then the conclusion is that a Sheffield plate copy COULD BE CONTEMPORARY. Then you can move on in the process. Remember any impossible conclusion forces an answer.
So understanding the history of technological innovations is the key to my approach.
Examples: Silver Electroplating did not begin before 1844.
Electro-typing was not possible before 1840.
Casting using Computer assisted engraving 1980.
Centrifugal casting 20th century
Casting is an old technology but before about 1830 fine grained molding materials were very limited. Therefore very grainy looking cast copies could have been made before 1830 but extremely clear copies indicates a later method like plastic casting which could not have been used in 1830.
So about your coin: First the coin was made during the period 1590 to 1611 or so. It is a roller strike - not a screw press strike. It was silver and it was a Thaler. So 20 grams seems extremely underweight for the standard thaler. It would have attracted attention being very underweight. It should be similar to a dollar. Next I note the design of the coin is quite faithful to originals. It appears to be copied (accurately) from a genuine coin. Finally the coin is rare and sells for several thousands of dollars. Points toward modern forgery.
Your coin has traits of roller strikes in the design - the slight doubling along one edge caused by the coin stretching between strikes. At the same time it also looks cast. There are very poor surfaces (fields) covered with small bumps. I believe it is a cast copy of a genuine coin or a mold produced by copying a photograph and then touching up the mold. This rules out contemporary.
So in say 1608 how would a forger have made a copy? Probably casting or hand hammering. To make a cast copy he would have cast a copy of a coin with green sand or clay or he would have hand engraved a mold. The coin itself would be a gravity pour. In the case of hammering the counterfeiter would need to engrave metal dies by hand. There was absolutely no technology that could replicate dies from a coin in 1608. The design is simply too well done.
The coin as presented is a coin that could not have been made in 1608. The process of manufacture is much newer. The coin is too rare to believe it is contemporary.
There is NO alternative to NUMISMATIC FORGERY.
I realize that the explanation in this case has been lengthy but it illustrates a process that can be used with any coin made at any time. Try to find something that could not have happened that way and you have a MODERN worthless forgery.
