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Help Identifying "15th Century Chinese" Coins.

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Pillar of the Community
bd251's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2017  11:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
While going through my collection with renewed interest, thanks to this site, I came across these coins. I purchased them several years ago as "15th century Chinese coins." Can someone identify them for me? Are they even authentic? Thanks

9.39g, aprox. 34mm
Help-Identifying-

8.04g, aprox 33mm
Help-Identifying-

edited to fix broken photobucket links
Edited by bd251
07/06/2017 11:49 am
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2017  05:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not 15th but 12th century.

Northern Song dynasty, Huizong (Hui Tsung), Chongning (Ch'ung-ning) era, fiduciary 10 cash, 1102-1106.
Schjoth 622-623 (I have no idea what the difference is).

Those things are pretty, surprisingly common for their age, and very affordable medieval large bronzes for people who like large coins and can't afford a sestertius
I have one of those too, which is how I recognized it so easily.


EDIT: both look real to my untrained eye, though the 8 gram example may be a contemporary counterfeit (or just too badly cleaned).
I'd say that they're too common to be worth faking, but with old Chinese stuff this doesn't really work, so whatever.
Edited by january1may
04/30/2017 05:08 am
Valued Member
AnYangMan's Avatar
Netherlands
91 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2017  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
january1may is right, as usual. Concerning schjöth 622/623, I'll just repeat myself from the previous topic in which one of these coins popped up:

"The only difference between the two varieties 622 and 623 is the calligraphy. The main difference is the first stroke of Zhong; 622 has an entirely horizontal stroke, while the first stroke of 623 is pointed upwards, like the one on these two coins (albeit it not very acute). There are many, many more varieties, and Schjöth is not known for his attention to these minor differences. His work had been the standard reference within the area of Chinese numismatics, right up until Hartills work was published, but mainly due to the lack of something better. Don't get me wrong, the book is, for its time, rather comprehensive and relatively detailed. I am fortunate enough to have an original 1929 edition at home, and I must say that the plates are absolutely stunning. Unfortunately, these were drawn by his daughter, who wasn't that into coins. The drawings are therefore not always that reliable. Anyway, enough digressing. This variety pictured here is obviously 623, or Hartill 16.407, the thin variant, to be more precise."

Same goes here, Schjöth 623, Hartill 16.407. I can't comment on the weight. All I know is that the two specimens presented in Schjöth varied form 7.7 - 13.3 gram. But Schjöth is, as we know, rather unreliable. I currently have no other information on the weights, but I'm just guessing 8 and 9 grams are both okay. Calligraphy looks okay on both, but check what the white/tan stuff is, whether or not it is dirt.

Mika
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bd251's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2017  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info guys! AnYangMan, can you link to that topic? I would be interested in reading it. I'll Check out the "white/tan stuff" and report back.
Valued Member
AnYangMan's Avatar
Netherlands
91 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2017  08:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure, here you go: http://goccf.com/t/284508. It is mostly about a couple of older Chinese cash, but it is mentioned towards the end of the topic.
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bd251's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2017  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bd251 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks AnYangMan. I'm not sure about the tan stuff. If its dirt its stuck on there pretty well. It came off a little in places with a light toothpick.
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