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1836 Capped Bust Half -- Cleaned?

 
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New Member
Canada
33 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:05 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinhistory to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I recently purchased this coin on eBay. Its PCGS graded XF45 but it looks like it might have been cleaned as there are lots of fine scratches on the surface. But isn't it true that PCGS would not give it a letter grade if it were cleaned? This is the first time I have purchased a coin in this price range and I am a bit confused as I am inexperienced.

Here is a link to the posting. You can see pictures if you scroll down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252727311041


Thanks for the assistance.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi coin history! Your suspicions are correct. This coin has without a doubt been cleaned. This is NOT what an original capped bust half looks like in xf. PCGS has deemed this coin to me market acceptable.
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, looks like it was harshly cleaned - sorry.

I really don't know how PCGS could straight grade that - look into a counterfeit slab
Edited by Mark1959
01/08/2018 12:21 am
Valued Member
United States
378 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not an expert, but, yes, the scratches you see, called hairlines, are from improper cleaning. A coin can have seemingly similar types of lines for different reasons. When looking at the obverse of this coin, you can see the lines cover different areas of the coin. Look closely and you will see how the fields (empty areas) and the raised design, particularly Liberty, are affected by the scratches. Someone probably used some type of brush to clean the coin.

It should be noted, though, that pictures often highlight these lines and make them look worse than they do in hand. Be careful, though, because the opposite is also true and some online sellers intentionally manipulate photos to hide such problems.

The grading companies vary widely. I posted a similar comment a while ago about why these coins are not given a "details" designation. I believe that the TPGs give leeway to certain series and certain coins. The Bust Half series seems to be one of those.

Again, I am not an expert and others here will offer their more informed opinions. It is a good idea to ask about a coin before buying it (something I wish I would always do!) Many people are helpful and generally give good advice.
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United States
9215 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:35 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good example of an obviously cleaned coin in a problem-free holder. It happens all the time but most examples are not this egregious.

Sadly it's a fact that big-name, big-dollar submitters get better results in the grading room. It would be interesting to know who submitting this piece to PCGS. If Joe Blow from Idaho submitted it then they get a no-grade 99% of the time.

The $259 sales price would be high for a nice example of this date. Here's a quality piece that recently sold on Heritage for $156. https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-...Lot=1x=0&y=0
ANA #R3154474
New Member
Canada
33 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinhistory to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your replies. And thats disappointing to hear. What is the point of depending on a thrid party if they do not tell you that the coint has been cleaned?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What is the point of depending on a thrid party if they do not tell you that the coint has been cleaned?




It's part the market acceptable movement that has harmed the hobby.

Basically key dates, and all coins dated prior to 1870 are given a lot of leniency as long as the cleaning job isn't atrocious. Like BP said, it happens all the time. That's just the way it is.
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
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1466 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The seller has 14 days money back, so use it.

Many of the members stated "buy the coin, not the slab", and this is a good example.

Good luck on your next purchase and keep reading CCF to gain knowledge. Your best defense
"Completed Dansco 7070 US type album. Upgrades to come"
http://goccf.com/t/325884

If you SEE a post milestone, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 10K+, click below.
http://goccf.com/t/316031#2688706
New Member
Canada
33 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinhistory to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I noticed that returns are accepted and I will have go that route. When my money is refunded I will need some assistance in finding a new coin. Seems like I will have to wait weeks since I have not even received the coin yet. There is a lot to learn in this hobby!

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  02:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Post all future coins that you are considering for acquisition in the grading section before you pull the trigger.

We have your back, dude!



Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
New Member
Canada
33 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinhistory to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! I didn't there was a grading section. Can anyone give me a link to it or tell me where it is?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  02:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, my name is MikeF and I'm a degenerate coin collector. I also like adventure, big trucks, long walks on the beach and the Kansas City Chiefs.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12614 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  05:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sadly it's a fact that big-name, big-dollar submitters get better results in the grading room. It would be interesting to know who submitting this piece to PCGS. If Joe Blow from Idaho submitted it then they get a no-grade 99% of the time.


This is absolute nonsense and completely untrue. The only deals the big submitters gets are lower fees, quicker submission times, and special labels. They do NOT get better grades
Pillar of the Community
United States
2422 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have purchased coins from the eBay seller MARC. When you do receive the coin in hand, it is going to look better than photos. This eBay seller's photos often blow up small details that are not noticeable to the eye. Some seller's photos hide flaws, MARC photos shows all imperfections. The coin does look cleaned and graded market acceptable by PCGS.
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 Posted 01/08/2018  11:15 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is absolute nonsense and completely untrue. The only deals the big submitters gets are lower fees, quicker submission times, and special labels. They do NOT get better grades


Believe whatever you want. The facts are the facts and this has been proven true hundreds of times for decades now.
ANA #R3154474
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United States
78623 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The facts are the facts and this has been proven true hundreds of times for decades now.
[citation needed]

Seriously, link some evidence. Otherwise, it is a libelous accusation.

I am no TPG apologist, but facts demand evidence, not just a simple exclamation that they exist. Also, keep in mind that new members and visitors deserve something more than the internet equivalent of "because I said so."
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