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1919 Copper Large Cent, Wrong Size Planchet

 
 
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United States
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 Posted 01/31/2018  10:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add zmerch to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've had a Canadian Large Cent Error coin since I was a young teenager (I'm currently 1/20 of a millennium old now :-) ) and I've not been able to find any information about the coin, even via the Interwebs. Hopefully someone here may point me in a new direction!

It's a copper 1919 Large Cent, but the planchet is the size of a quarter. My "best guess" speculation is a sheet of copper got sent down the quarter planchet cutter, brought back to the cent die line, and minted. The coin is not reeded.

I've compared the cent to Canadian quarters of the same era, and there is (at least to my fingers) no distinguishable difference in diameter, but it's noticeably smaller than my other large cents.

I have photos:





Granted, these photos were taken with my cell phone, so they're not the best - I did use a makeshift tripod and side lighting for two of the photos - although the side lighting kinda makes it look like the coin is 'oblong' at the base, it's not so I included one non-flash photo to see the coin is actually round. :-) I also have higher resolution pictures if they'd help, I do have them hosted on my personal website, but per the rules of the forum as I'm a new member, I wasn't sure if it was OK to post the URL just yet.

I hope this post is fairly complete with information (at least to start) - if not please let me know what you'd like to know about the coin and I'd be happy to provide more info if I can. Unfortunately, one thing I cannot do is give you a precise weight of the coin, I don't currently own a scale accurate enough for that.

Has anyone seen this error before? If so, any idea how rare this error might be?

Thanks for looking & reading, folks!

P.S. This is my first post, so if I've goofed anything up or could improve the post, please feel free to let me know!
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 Posted 01/31/2018  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF fellow Michigander. 25.4mm is what it should be. What is yours? 23.62mm for a quarter.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
Edited by John1
01/31/2018 10:41 am
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 Posted 01/31/2018  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks to me as if someone has ground it down slightly.
The coin does not look perfectly round. (See bottom of coin)
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United States
2 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2018  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zmerch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@John1 - Thanks for the welcome! Unfortunately, I also don't have a decent set of calipers... although I do need to put in an order and may pick up a decent but not too expensive set. However, I am an engineer by heart & trade (computer software & hardware, specifically) so... lemme dig around the office...

@JimmyD - Thanks for the comment, although I did address the "oblong" nature of the pictures as due to using strong side light, and the bottom of the coin is a heavy shadow. I found it odd that the heavy shadow looked almost exactly the same color as the coin, it isn't. I included a non-lit picture of poor quality to try to show that the coin is in fact quite round. However... it's not a good picture, so... lemme dig around the office...

Mmmkay. Here's what I got. I have a well worn 1972 US George Washington quarter (Good to Very Good, I'd guess, unimportant, tho.). I also have an adjustable wrench (spanner, for the Brits :-) ) with a gauge and something to prop it up against. So, my method is this: I compared the Large Cent to the US quarter, it's slightly smaller in diameter. As I doubt the quarter will be worth more than 25 cents US, I put it in the adjustable wrench and tightened it as much as possible, to use the quarter as a "backdrop" for the large cent, propped up the wrench as vertically as possible (but not perfect, this is all freehand), then very, very, *very* gently set the large cent in front of the quarter, and it "slid right in" with a small amount of leeway. Took a couple pictures as best as I could with a) natural light, and b) my cell phone camera. Slid 'em over to my desktop, picked the best I could see, and sparked up Gimp, to see how to get the best quality & size combined under the 300KB limit of the forum. With some judicious cropping and using a fairly high compression (which still kept the details I was interested in) I was able to scale the image down minimally.

You can see: 1) a little bit of the GW quarter peeking out from behind the large cent, 2) the base of the large cent is in fact quite round (albeit not quite perfect, I suspect not having enough metal to fill the die to the rim has a bit to do with that) and 3) in the upper left hand corner of the picture there is a (admittedly not as accurate as a digital caliper) scale on the wrench, presumably for measuring the size of the bolt/nut you're working with so you can grab the correct sized box-end wrench the next time. (could be handy if the head of the bolt is out of sight.) Took a 2nd picture of the ruler of the wrench. As 15/16" is 23.8mm and a Washington quarter is 24.3mm (albeit the one I used the reeding was almost all worn off), this shows (without digging into the collection to find an actual Canadian quarter of the period) that 23.6mm is "really gosh darned close" to the size of my large cent.

Images [[ I hope the first isn't too big (resolution-wise) for the forum... ]]:





I'll update the post when I receive more/better equipment for a more detailed analysis.

I guess on that note: Any recommendations for a good coin scale? Would a single-serving tea scale work, or is that still not good enough? Not looking to spend a mint on it, tho -- $30ish?
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 Posted 01/31/2018  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If a quarter-sized planchet went through large cent dies, the metal would "flow" outward as the pressure was applied. The coin would be thinner and loose some of its sharpness. I think that it was modified in a shop .. maybe so that the penny would go through a 25 cent slot in any number of machines or amusements.
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 Posted 01/31/2018  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you show a couple of photos from different spots along edge of the coin?
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Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 01/31/2018  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one like this too...but it was ground down and the edge wasn't polished...yours could have been ground down and the edge polished/rounded

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 Posted 02/01/2018  01:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 02/01/2018  03:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got one as well, but it's an 1899. I think that Vicky looks better than George, slightly reduced.
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