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1861 O Seated Liberty - seeking feedback  
 

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 Posted 07/01/2018  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all very much for the feedback and informative pieces of information.

@bandsdean - I agree the obverse of the coin is a bit weakly struck, especially in the date region and below.

@Slider23 - OK. Are they caused by exposure to sulfur? I thought sulfur causes toning, not spotting. Any way to remove them. Would acetone do anything?

@BH - The thought that this coin was a forgery never even crossed my mind. I have yet to come across a true silver Chinese knockoff, let alone one brimming with luster and strong details. I'll get it sent in to PCGS/NGC one of these days but I have no doubt about the authenticity of this coin.

@Heymikep - thank you for that. I checked a few of Heritage's listings with that die description and there are definitely similarities. I can't really tell the difference between the varieties but you may be correct.

@two_tonev35 - You're right about the wipe marks; I saw them immediately when I was looking over the images. I often expose my coins to a strong direct light when I take pictures and that usually brings out a lot of detail you can't see with the naked eye. I looked over that field in detail and no wipe marks can be seen with the naked eye under any lighting or at any angle.

As for grading, most of you said AU53-55. I don't know if I agree with that. I have looked at a lot of AUs on Heritage and none look like this one. Most look like they've been wiped with brillo when you really start to enlarge images. Even the cleaner ones have a lot of flaws in the fields, and flat spots are readily seen, especially on the knee/thigh, hand holding the cap, breast, and bottom section of the rock liberty is sitting on, not to mention questionable luster. I linked a few below. I may be wrong or perhaps biased (or both) but I honestly think this should grade MS.


https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...ption-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...ption-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...ption-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...ption-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...ption-071515
Nothing better than a fresh World Crown arriving in the mail after a long and tiring day.
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2066 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2018  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@Slider23 - OK. Are they caused by exposure to sulfur? I thought sulfur causes toning, not spotting. Any way to remove them. Would acetone do anything?


The black spots and marks appear to be tarnish caused by sulfur. If you are lucky, the spots and marks were caused by an organic material and acetone may remove. Acetone will not remove tarnish.

If acetone does not remove the spots, the coin would need to be dipped to remove the black tarnish. All spots may not come off with a dip.

I would try acetone, but I would not dip the coin.

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4227 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2018  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The most I would do to this coin is soak it in 100% acetone from the hardware store. I would NOT dip this coin in a coin cleaning solution.


Quote:
but I honestly think this should grade MS.


A coin which clearly has wear should not grade MS. This coin would grade AU-53 due to the wear present.

What you are seeing are examples that have market-acceptable cleanings. This is very common for the Seated and Capped Bust series. Yours just happens to have more original surfaces than the coins you see on Heritage.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Edited by SilverDollar2017
07/01/2018 10:28 am
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 Posted 07/01/2018  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chevelle7167 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No chance that coin would ever grade MS. I have a number of PCGS graded examples of this coin. I have two 55's, both which look nicer and have less wear than this coin. I also have two 45 examples, which exhibit a bit more wear. If the coin does straight grade, I would say 50-53. I would just be concerned with the scratches on the obverse on the right hand side.
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 Posted 07/02/2018  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Slider - I looked at the spots in greater detail and it doesn't look like organic material. They look more like tarnish.

As for grade, I guess we'll see what the TPGs think. AU53-55 is still not too shabby considering the price. I will re-post once I get it graded - might be a bit though.

Thank you fine gentlemen for all the input.
Nothing better than a fresh World Crown arriving in the mail after a long and tiring day.
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