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Terminology: Post-Strike Vs Post Mint Damage

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 07/20/2018  08:09 am Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I see these terms used interchangibly when they shouldn't. So this is my attempt at an infographic.






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 Posted 07/20/2018  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PSD= any damage after the coin was minted within the mint

PMD= any damage after the coin leaves the mint

John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 07/20/2018  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Nolt sure about that Lincoln Cent. Sure looks like something the Mint would send out.
just carl
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 Posted 07/20/2018  09:48 am  Show Profile   Check HoboNickelCarver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add HoboNickelCarver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wouldn't both terms be talking about damage done after the coin has been minted?
Edited by HoboNickelCarver
07/20/2018 09:50 am
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 Posted 07/20/2018  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your picture of the 5 rupee coin is NOT post strike damage. That occured DURING the strike and would be considered to be a mint error.


Quote:
PSD= any damage after the coin was minted within the mint

PMD= any damage after the coin leaves the mint

The problem with those definitions is that if the coin was damaged after it was struck, how do you determine if the damage occurred before or after it left the mint building? You can't, so it is rather meaningless. Another problem with Post Mint Damage is that it comes from lazy people. The term was originally Post Minting Damage meaning after the coin was minted not after it left the building. When people shortened Minting to Mint it changed the meaning.

This is why the term should be PSD Post Strike Damage. Anything that happens to the coin after the moment of strike, no matter where the coin is at the time, is Post Strike Damage PSD.

The term PMD should be phased out in favor of PSD. Continued use of the term PMD just leads to confusion for newbies.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 07/20/2018  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Condor already nailed my exact thoughts.
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 Posted 07/20/2018  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I used to use the term Post Mint Damage, but when I heard that Post Strike Damage is the proper term, I started to use that instead all of the time. I can thank Coop for that lesson.
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1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
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 Posted 07/20/2018  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikem007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've recently plucked coins out of Mint sets that looked like somebody tried to cut in half. No damage to packaging so I had to assume PSD. I was more concerned that somebody actually allowed those coins to go into a Mint set. Spent one of the quarters at the local pizza shop in town. Set it free.
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 Posted 07/20/2018  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is why the term should be PSD Post Strike Damage. Anything that happens to the coin after the moment of strike, no matter where the coin is at the time, is Post Strike Damage PSD.

The term PMD should be phased out in favor of PSD. Continued use of the term PMD just leads to confusion for newbies.
Fair points.

You may have noticed that PMD and PSD are in the CCF glossary, but only PMD automatically links to it whenever you type it. PSD does not, so I will see if I can get that changed.
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 Posted 07/20/2018  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jbuck, I agree that PSD (Post Strike Damage) should be linked to the CCF glossary as it's the proper term for damage. Getting PSD linked would be great.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 07/20/2018  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion this is really all an insignificant semantics argument, both terms imply pretty much the same thing and if someone has a preference for one over the other it really shouldnt matter.

When I type or read PSD or PMD, the same thought comes into my mind: Damage, not an error.

When someone says that a coin that's been heavily damaged is a "parking lot coin", can you really prove that the damage came from a parking lot? not really. Does it matter? not really. It carries the same meaning as someone calling it "damaged"
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 Posted 07/20/2018  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So what would you call this? And yes, it came directly from the Mint.











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Edited by USSID18
07/20/2018 6:03 pm
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 Posted 07/20/2018  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If someone had called it PMD would you really be unable to discern the meaning behind what was said?

In the few cases like this, you could qualify that the mint themselves caused this damage after the coin was struck, but in the vast majority of damaged coin situations, it really doesn't make a difference
Edited by Adam_E
07/20/2018 6:08 pm
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 Posted 07/20/2018  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And here's the gray area. Consider an ejection error. Mint error? Indeed. Strike error? No, after strike. At just what point does Post-Strike become effective? In my mind it is once the hammer die has retracted and coin is booted from it's perch. So, basic point, can a coin be a "Mint error" and Post struck? In this example, plainly it can be. So how far down the production line will a coin be considered as Post Struck Mint error? I would assume, as literal, it is once the coin has left premises, upon leaving it then becomes a "Post-Minted" error/variety as Conder pointed out. So there does seem to be a distinction that needs to be made.

I hope this drives all you language use purists nuts!
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 Posted 07/20/2018  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Theres definitely an interesting discussion to be had when it comes down to classifying whether something is a mint error or mint cause PSD or how far along the minting process something is considered struck.

However in practical application on this forum, I really do not believe its necessary to try and language police people on their terms when in nearly every single case the two terms carry the same meaning and intent(and can be interpreted as such). And in cases where it cant, it can always be qualified and expanded upon(which it usually is anyway).
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 Posted 07/21/2018  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Morgan you show is not "damaged" unless you strictly define routine Mint and Treasury handling and storage as "damage." If that's your point of view, I'll be glad to buy your "damaged" Morgans, at ultra-low "damaged coin" prices. ;)

That being said, I agree wholeheartedly that PMD should be 100% deprecated in favor of PSD. Perhaps the auto-correct could change PMD to PSD like it does for certain other things. It's absolutely thrilling that so many new people are interested in errors and varieties, and looking at coins in general, that the last thing they need is massive confusion when first learning about coins.
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Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

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