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Just A Thought: Where Are The P/P RPMS?

 
 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/25/2018  5:57 pm Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
If mintmarks were added by hand until 1990, where are the Philadelphia repunched mintmarks? (Disregarding the wartime nickels) There was a P mintmark on nickels, dimes, quarters, and half dollars from 1980 until 1989 and dollars from 1979 until 1981. So where are the RPMs?!

Just an interesting thought I had. Do they not exist, are they impossible, or could there be some out there?
Edited by Tanman2001
09/25/2018 6:01 pm
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 Posted 09/25/2018  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent thought Tanman! I have yet to see anything posted about an true RPM for those years and when someone thinks they have one the answer is always the same, MD.
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 Posted 09/25/2018  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are RPM's, but it seems to not happen on the Philadelphia ones. http://www.varietyvista.com/09b%20W...intmarks.htm http://www.varietyvista.com/09b%20W...9DRPM001.htm
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
2000 P LMC With Retained Struck Through error. http://goccf.com/t/357080
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 Posted 09/25/2018  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
it seems to not happen on the Philadelphia ones.


That's my point, there are none listed. Could they exist?
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 Posted 09/25/2018  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aliens do, don't they?
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 Posted 09/25/2018  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They might exist, but maybe nobody has discovered one yet, or they didn't bother to submit them.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
2000 P LMC With Retained Struck Through error. http://goccf.com/t/357080
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 Posted 09/25/2018  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having done some leather and metal punching years ago, I have a theory. It all has to do with shape. 1) the puncheon is tapered, end being skinnier than base depth. 2) shape of P... has a long thin flat leg with ellipsis on top, D has flat side with ellipsis connected to ends, almost a circle. 3) punching were generally multiple taps to set correct depth. The P because of leg would NOT be subject to rotating movement with each additional tap. The D on the other hand could be rotated when insertion for addition taps since tip is smaller than hole caused by first tap.

When considering the P mintmark on war nicks...again it is shape and depth here. The mark puncheon being larger, has flat sides and shallow depth, I can see a possibility of twisting and getting "outside of the box" on a second punch.
Edited by Crazyb0
09/25/2018 7:57 pm
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 Posted 09/25/2018  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Check CoinCollector2000's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know there are some on the war nickels, so if you want a P/P then you might want to go after one of those.
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 Posted 09/25/2018  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's an interesting question! I do see that VV has a column for P-Mint Jefferson nickel RPMs from 80-89 (recognizing the possibility), but there is no column for other denominations that could be affected. This is what is said on error-ref:


Quote:
There are other mint marks (P, O, CC, etc.) that have been repunched, but the majority of RPMs are found with either the S or D mint mark.


I don't think I buy the shape argument. Considering the vast quantity of dies that would have been prepared to create P-Mint nickels, dimes, quarters and halves for 10 years and the dollar for three years, I find it hard to believe that no single mistake was ever made.

Heck, the Philly Mint seems to produce more errors than the others, anyway.

My question is: how many people are searching these years/denoms for RPMs to even find one? I would venture to guess that the majority of RPM/OMM searchers aren't looking at '80s coins. This may be a reach, but the majority of those who do search likely only search cents.

Another thought: I would think that Mint employees experienced in punching dies with an S or D may have trouble, at least at the beginning, punching the new P. That adds more to the possibility that errors were likely made.
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"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
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My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
Edited by spruett001
09/25/2018 10:21 pm
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 Posted 09/26/2018  11:33 am  Show Profile   Check CoinCollector2000's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would venture to guess that the majority of RPM/OMM searchers aren't looking at '80s coins. This may be a reach, but the majority of those who do search likely only search cents.


I am guilty of searching only the cents, so this possibility is extremely likely. I agree that there had to be some mistake, but the severity of the RPM is up for debate.
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